a maybe not so crazy idea

[plural]

Update: Please link to http://www.wolfenet.com/~plural - it is our temporary webhome a domain has been registered and we are waiting for DNS servers to catch up - Thanks and sorry about the bold

If Bush takes Florida that will give him enough
Electoral votes (271) to become president
but he will have lost the popular vote

If Gore takes Oregon
that will put him at 267 Electoral votes
just three shy of the 270 needed to win

now technically
the electoral college is supposed
to vote in accordance with the results
of the state balloting

and all but two states have a law
which establishes a winner take all
in respect to the electoral vote
which means whomever wins
the popular vote
for that state gets all of the votes

Now the electoral college
is not required to cast their votes this way
there have been several cases in the past
where a member of the electoral college
has voted contrary to the public vote

In most states
this is perfectly legal
in Washington state
it is a misdemeanor
which carries a $1000 dollar fine

In which case
I think we should all buck up
and agree to pay any related legal costs
for Electors who vote contrary to their state
and in accordance with the popular vote.

So all we have to do
is between now and December 18th
is to convince 4 members of the electoral college
to follow the Popular vote on the national level
instead of their particular states vote

If you live in a State
that went for Bush
go to this link

Electoral College Homepage

Under the first subheading "Electoral Results"
The last listing is "Electoral Votes, by State, listing individual electors:"
with links to the years 1992 and 1996

by Federal law
every state must prepare and file seven "Certificates of Ascertainment"
listing each of the Electors for that state
as soon as election results are finalized for that state

very shortly we should see a link for 2000 appear at the end of that line
which will list by state the names of all the electors
contact your electors
and tell them to support the popular vote
and cast their vote for Gore/Lieberman

If you don't live in a state that went for Bush
call electors from other states
once the list has been posted
I will attempt to gather contact information
for the 538 electors starting with the states that went for Bush
and will post it here

Some of you may want Bush to win
other may just think I am crazy
but I think of it this way

It is only a matter of changing the minds
of four people

people like you or I
and if you assume they follow the national demographic
half of them, when they cast their ballots
voted for Gore

(correction - each party selects a slate of electors equal to the total number of representatives which that state has in both houses of congress, so if the republicans won a state, then all of the republican electors were elected, so we need to convince four republicans to see things our way, a slight increase in difficulty but again it is only 4 people)

And if we succeed
we can say
we altered the course of history
for the most powerful nation on earth

How is that for something to tell your grand kids?

If you agree with my idea
link to it
spread the word
lets start a popular uprising
and make it happen

If you like this idea you can read more of my thoughts on this matter Here

remember
all we have to do
is convince
four people


Update: Please link to http://www.wolfenet.com/~plural - it is our temporary webhome a domain has been registered and we are waiting for DNS servers to catch up - Thanks and sorry about the bold

Comments

[absolution.livejournal.com]

:)

i like you.

Re: I Like you

[plural.livejournal.com]

Aww thanks
but the question is
will you support my idea?

[budhaboy.livejournal.com]

you rule all plural.

Plural for president in 2010.

I presume you'll need a pollster?

Hehehe

[plural.livejournal.com]

Actually it would be 2012
but close enough
and sir
though we greatly digress on most philosophys
I would be honored to have you by my side
so does that mean
you will support
this little plan of mine?

Link
Yell
Shout
Email

Get the word out

We can make this happen

so lets do it

[shudder2think.livejournal.com]

i'm in, plural. emailing will start soon, and i know i'm going to piss off a lot of people, because a good majority of my friends and my boyfriend's family are all voting for bush...thank god i live in pennsylvania and they live in nj! but i will spread the word, and i will help try and alter the course of history...

Great

[plural.livejournal.com]

Glad to have you on board

[newtrip.livejournal.com]

link posted in my journal... ;-)

woot!

[plural.livejournal.com]

Great

Together we are going to make an impact

I am getting really excited about being able to make a difference in the world for once

P

I'm with you on this one!

[eveworth.livejournal.com]

I've linked this idea to my journal and forwarded it to all my friends. Go Plural!

re: Stop Bush's theft of the people's will.

[millionz.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you say plural but it is not enough to wait until December 18th and hope we have convinced some electors to change their minds. We must act as soon as possible and frankly emailing a few people is just not enough. We need to get on the phone and call the people who work for us. Conveniently all of our elected officials have their phone numbers posted on the internet and are happy to take our calls. So go read this article written by Michael Moore http://www.michaelmoore.com/2000_11_08.html
it provides the link to a page that has the contact information for your state senators congressmen and governor. Call them today and we really might be able to change this thing.

Great everything and anything you do will help

[plural.livejournal.com]

But I want to make a clarification

Bush did not steal the peoples vote
this is a flaw in our system
some allegations have been made
of voter irregularities in certain
counties of Florida.

but that is not what this is about

this is about
Keeping the election of the presidency
in the hands of all the people
and not letting our votes be wasted

I will not stand by
and watch the candidate who was
elected by the majority of the popular vote
by a margin of some 200,000 people
be pushed aside because of a single state
and the choices of as few as 1000 voters
in that state.

Amen

[revjim.livejournal.com]

A have posted a link to this entry in my journal.

I support your idea, however crazy, 100%.

If there are enough of us... we can still make a difference....

The Idea of influencing electorals

[ajaypatel.livejournal.com]

Doing what you are doing would undermine the system of government that we presently have established. The electoral college, believe it or not is set up for your protection only. Being from New Jersey, we would be a state that would otherwise be ignored if not for the electoral college, due to the fact that more votes could be won simply by going to neighboring NYC, and Philadelphia. Because I voted amongst a smaller group of people toward a set electors, my vote meant more, as did everyone else out there. To now create a campaign amongst the electors would just further this country and its system going south. In the constitution it was determined that the states mandate how the electors be split up. The reason that some states mandate that the electors must vote a certain way is because that is how the state and ITS RESIDENT PEOPLE has decided it. Most all of the states do not have penalties because it is not believed that an elector should be forced. To them go ahead and convince electors OUT of YOUR home state would be a crime against the foundations of this country and the states and their people whom the elector is to represent. Vice President Al Gore and Texas Governor George W. Bush have both outright expressed their feelings that they agree with the system that is in place. The electors are very well informed voters, and are specifically chosen to do their job. Most people argue that campaign finances, and money being spent is getting out of hand, well look what you are doing right now. You are looking to raise money, for a cause. As the stakes get larger so does the money, and yet many of us would still cry blue over the spending of money but its movements like this that cause it. Also, doing this for a candidate would actually create voter fraud. To pay an electors fine for changing his vote can be perceived as bribery, a federal offence that would do nothing but hurt your cause. Whether you support Bush or Gore, the best thing to do now is to sit and wait to see what happens. Trying to go out and get a hold of these electors would be an irresponsible act towards our constitution, and quite possibly towards the candidate that you support.
Thank you
Ajay Patel

Re: The Idea of influencing electorals

[plural.livejournal.com]

Firstly
I am not doing this out of support
for a particular candidate
but as I have said before
I honesty dislike both candidates
However I have strong objection to this election
being decided by a minute handful of Florida voters
I understand the rational and the benefits of the electoral system as it was intended

I disagree that the electors are chosen because of their qualifications as well informed voters
From what I have learned, electors both in the Democratic and Republican Camps are often selected
as a mark of distinction for service and dedication to their parties.

I am not trying to force or bribe any elector to come around to my point of view
which is simply that the Popular vote should hold more sway than the vote of a few people in Florida.

I believe very strongly that the electors should vote in line with the national popular vote
a view which you disagree with, and I can see the merits in your views.
I also believe that an elector should not be punished for making a choice
of conscience and voting in line with the national popular vote.

I am saying, and organizing people who agree with my point of view, that
I support any elector that choose to agree with us and act upon their conscience

A republican elector is not going to vote for Gore simply because
I have offered to assist in shouldering the burden of any financial or legal
consequences of that vote. They may however, through an uprising of grass roots
support come to see our point of view and vote accordingly.
As such I do not feel they should be punished for
acting in accordance with their conscience.

a separate note, I have discussed this with my attorneys
and they will be researching it in depth to assure
that this process is done without violating any
state or federal laws. But their initial impression
was that this would not be a violation of law.

I greatly appreciate the time and thought you put into
writing your response. I enjoy greatly enjoy hearing and
discussing differing points of view.

Sincerely

Plural

Too bad i'm not there

[marcoo.livejournal.com]

Not a bad plan at all

Re: Too bad i'm not there

[plural.livejournal.com]

hey marco
since you arent here
I have seen ya do some nifty stuff with
graphics
any way we could recruit ya to do some
web/graphic design work for our site?

p

[lique.livejournal.com]

Thank you, for actually thinking. :)

[morningglory.livejournal.com]

woo, this plan is wonderful. im all for it. im going to link this on my journal and my site. ive forwarded it to both my parents and tons of friends. you are a very smart man. Keep thinking like this and you may actually get somewhere. i like it when people do and not just say.
::sighs for only being 16 and not able to vote::
::sighs again::

[nbbmom.livejournal.com]

Can someone tell me how to link this to my journal? Thanks!

How to Link a definative Guide

[plural.livejournal.com]

Check this post

Also as of this moment you can link to


www.wolfenet.com/~plural

you can use the same instructions listed about and substitue the url above instead

[nbbmom.livejournal.com]

Can someone tell me how to link this to my journal? Thanks! And I think this will make interesting material on the air tomorrow (in my Republican-(ugh) controlled state!)

Re:

[projectx.livejournal.com]

I can link it from a reply if you wish...

You defeated Demos are funny

[beloth.livejournal.com]

Lets bitch and whine cause Bush is going to take the Electorial Votes and win.
If the state law says you get the electorial votes because you took the popular vote then you get it. Why not take to the streets in armed protest and start a Gore power revolution?
YOU all are sad. Yes it was a close election and yes gore won it by popular vote BUT not by the electorial college vote according to our existing laws.
This has happened before in the past. And yeah it sucks for the canidate that it happens to. But damn just accept it people.
We witnessed a history defining moment. Take it for that. Our forefathers set up the electorial process the way they did for good reason.
Just be happy that we can vote and stop your whining.
There has never NEVER been a reversal on a presidential election during a recount so IF Bush lead last nite like they said he WON.
END OF STORY.

Beloth
(Let flaming comense)

Good Reason?

[kabuki.livejournal.com]

"Our forefathers set up the electorial process the way they did for good reason."

Good reason? What exactly is the good reason you are refferring to? The population imbalences of over 200 years ago? The fact that they thought the people were too stupid or uninformed to vote for themselves? I would LOVE to know which "good reason" you are refferring to.

And I don't think I need to point out that "our forefathers" have been wrong before. The whole thing about limiting the right to vote to white male landowners comes to mind, along with many other things.

The Electoral College is an antiquated concept that has no place in our rapidly advancing world. It is about time something like this happened to wake people up to this fact. I just hope that wake up call does not come at the price of democracy.

[cepheid.livejournal.com]

that's something you'd never hear about from the networks, this is what the internet is for. Great idea to spread this around!

they don't speak for us

[pyrop.livejournal.com]

I doubt this will work, because:

1. The parties usually choose people who mindlessly follow the party.


2. The parties generally choose people they have influence over, and can fuck over bad if they go back on their vote (i.e. ruining their careers).


3. The republicans could most likely pay their electors insubordinate amounts of money to keep them from going back on their vote.

Then should we not even try to change things?

[plural.livejournal.com]

No we only fail, if we fail to act

but you are right in some ways

This may not work

and yes, they pick people who has server the party
for a long time faithfully

which makes it something of a long shot

but then again we only have to change four minds

that is less than 1.5% of the Republican Electors

We will get the word out
and we will identify them
and we will let them know
that we
their friends,
their neighbors,
their coworkers
expect them to act conscientiously

is it impossible that we convince 4 out of 271
electors to change their minds
not at all

I would say if we can get out enough
of a grass roots effort
and really let them know directly
what we expect them to do

that some will come around
to our way of thinking

it is not so far-fetched
a simple question of numbers

...

[kore.livejournal.com]

i'll post a link, too.
i think it's a very good idea... and clever of you.

same old same old

[clankyrobot.livejournal.com]

i posted a link in my journal.
and i'd be willing to do almost anything to help.
(except give money since i have none myself) :\

Spread the word....

[plural.livejournal.com]

If you want to help
spread the word
call your friends, family and neighbors
call your local media
help us bring attention
to our point of view
find other like minded people
post comments in online forum
call your representitives
anything you do helps

We can make this happen

the hardest part is just
getting the attention
and the word out
to get the momentum of popular support
on our side

well, mathematically speaking. . .

[doncabfan.livejournal.com]

you would only have to change 3 people's minds:
observe:
271 for bush
268 for gore

270 for bush
269 for gore

269 for bush
270 for gore

Re: well, mathematically speaking. . .

[submission.livejournal.com]

wrong.
Bush 271
Gore 267
= 538 (435 house, 100 senate, 3 for DC)

and this is all assuming Bush wins Florida anyway.

just a suggestion...

[tingaling.livejournal.com]

Perhaps before you start a citizen's movement you should start speaking in complete paragraphs and sentences with some semblance of grammar at least on the web page.

If you are asking people to publicize this then it requires a little more formality than LJ.

Amar

Re: just a suggestion...

[plural.livejournal.com]

Challenging my grammer is not going to get a rise out of me, this idea and the movement which people have spawned around it, is to important to reduce to flaming.

However when dealing with large amounts of on screen text, I find that breaking them up much like one would speak, into logical and concise words, rather than a seemingly endless block of text.

and lastly, the site is in alpha mode, we hope to have beta soon. Unfortunatly time is not a luxury we have, so what I am doing is trying to get as much information out to as many people as I can and will worry about making it look shiny along the way.

[paved.livejournal.com]

i completely support your idea.
but please tell me exactly what i need to do. and remind me. because i tend to lose track of time.

one question... you said that we have til dec. 18 to do this, right? i don't understand... isn't the president inaugaurated [i most likely spelled that incorrectly] when the election is over?

Dec. 18th

[plural.livejournal.com]

The only people
who actually cast ballots
for the President and Vice-President
are the electoral college
They do not vote until Dec. 18th
so what we are trying to do
is lobby the 271 people
who are intendeding to vote for Bush
and convince 4 of them to vote for the
candidate who recieved the majority of the
popular vote.

What you can do...

you can create a link to our website in your journal.
post the link in any online forums which you have access
call you local media and let them know what is going on.
Call/email your friends and let them know/get them involved

http://www.wolfenet.com/~plural

this will change shortly but I will post the change and a redirect as well

You can go to the rallies
You can help us gather the lists
of electors in the Republican won states
help us look up their contact info so that we
can publish it.

Any of this you do
will help the cause
and help us
change history