a maybe not so crazy idea

[plural]

Update: Please link to http://www.wolfenet.com/~plural - it is our temporary webhome a domain has been registered and we are waiting for DNS servers to catch up - Thanks and sorry about the bold

If Bush takes Florida that will give him enough
Electoral votes (271) to become president
but he will have lost the popular vote

If Gore takes Oregon
that will put him at 267 Electoral votes
just three shy of the 270 needed to win

now technically
the electoral college is supposed
to vote in accordance with the results
of the state balloting

and all but two states have a law
which establishes a winner take all
in respect to the electoral vote
which means whomever wins
the popular vote
for that state gets all of the votes

Now the electoral college
is not required to cast their votes this way
there have been several cases in the past
where a member of the electoral college
has voted contrary to the public vote

In most states
this is perfectly legal
in Washington state
it is a misdemeanor
which carries a $1000 dollar fine

In which case
I think we should all buck up
and agree to pay any related legal costs
for Electors who vote contrary to their state
and in accordance with the popular vote.

So all we have to do
is between now and December 18th
is to convince 4 members of the electoral college
to follow the Popular vote on the national level
instead of their particular states vote

If you live in a State
that went for Bush
go to this link

Electoral College Homepage

Under the first subheading "Electoral Results"
The last listing is "Electoral Votes, by State, listing individual electors:"
with links to the years 1992 and 1996

by Federal law
every state must prepare and file seven "Certificates of Ascertainment"
listing each of the Electors for that state
as soon as election results are finalized for that state

very shortly we should see a link for 2000 appear at the end of that line
which will list by state the names of all the electors
contact your electors
and tell them to support the popular vote
and cast their vote for Gore/Lieberman

If you don't live in a state that went for Bush
call electors from other states
once the list has been posted
I will attempt to gather contact information
for the 538 electors starting with the states that went for Bush
and will post it here

Some of you may want Bush to win
other may just think I am crazy
but I think of it this way

It is only a matter of changing the minds
of four people

people like you or I
and if you assume they follow the national demographic
half of them, when they cast their ballots
voted for Gore

(correction - each party selects a slate of electors equal to the total number of representatives which that state has in both houses of congress, so if the republicans won a state, then all of the republican electors were elected, so we need to convince four republicans to see things our way, a slight increase in difficulty but again it is only 4 people)

And if we succeed
we can say
we altered the course of history
for the most powerful nation on earth

How is that for something to tell your grand kids?

If you agree with my idea
link to it
spread the word
lets start a popular uprising
and make it happen

If you like this idea you can read more of my thoughts on this matter Here

remember
all we have to do
is convince
four people


Update: Please link to http://www.wolfenet.com/~plural - it is our temporary webhome a domain has been registered and we are waiting for DNS servers to catch up - Thanks and sorry about the bold

Comments

[absolution.livejournal.com]

:)

i like you.

Re: I Like you

[plural.livejournal.com]

Aww thanks
but the question is
will you support my idea?

Re: I Like you

[absolution.livejournal.com]

i support it, yes, very much so.

i think popular vote should count. and this has been a very interesting election, obviously...just prior to it some friends were discussing how it would be unexpected to have the electoral college vote disagree with the popular vote.

oddly, though, i vote in a state where gore won (new york)...but i would. i think it is not a crazy idea.

Re: I Like you

[plural.livejournal.com]

well
I will attempt by hook or by crook (or most likely by spending far too much time talking to the Federal Election Commission) gather contact information for all of the electors in republican won states. We need to inundate them with out point of view.

tell your friends and have them tell their friends
surely somewhere along the lines we will reach people who live in Republican won states, maybe even the electors neighbors who can contact them as well.

The electors are normal average joes, in fact under the Constitution, State legislatures have broad powers to direct the process for selecting electors, with one exception regarding the qualifications of electors. Article II, section 1, clause 2 provides that "no Senator, Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States" may be appointed as an elector.

This means that no federal employee or elected offical can serve as an elector.

These are your neighbors, friends, and possibly even family memebers.

Reach out and let them know your mind.

[budhaboy.livejournal.com]

you rule all plural.

Plural for president in 2010.

I presume you'll need a pollster?

Hehehe

[plural.livejournal.com]

Actually it would be 2012
but close enough
and sir
though we greatly digress on most philosophys
I would be honored to have you by my side
so does that mean
you will support
this little plan of mine?

Link
Yell
Shout
Email

Get the word out

We can make this happen

so lets do it

Re: Hehehe

[budhaboy.livejournal.com]

sure, I'll help, but I'll want an ambassidorship.

Someplace nice, Tahiti maybe...

Excellent

[plural.livejournal.com]

Well lets deal with this election first
then we can start talking about 2012
but I have one catch for ya
you have to learn to spell ambassadorship
before I can appoint you to the position };->

Re: Excellent

[budhaboy.livejournal.com]

bite me.

[shudder2think.livejournal.com]

i'm in, plural. emailing will start soon, and i know i'm going to piss off a lot of people, because a good majority of my friends and my boyfriend's family are all voting for bush...thank god i live in pennsylvania and they live in nj! but i will spread the word, and i will help try and alter the course of history...

Great

[plural.livejournal.com]

Glad to have you on board

[newtrip.livejournal.com]

link posted in my journal... ;-)

woot!

[plural.livejournal.com]

Great

Together we are going to make an impact

I am getting really excited about being able to make a difference in the world for once

P

I'm with you on this one!

[eveworth.livejournal.com]

I've linked this idea to my journal and forwarded it to all my friends. Go Plural!

re: Stop Bush's theft of the people's will.

[millionz.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you say plural but it is not enough to wait until December 18th and hope we have convinced some electors to change their minds. We must act as soon as possible and frankly emailing a few people is just not enough. We need to get on the phone and call the people who work for us. Conveniently all of our elected officials have their phone numbers posted on the internet and are happy to take our calls. So go read this article written by Michael Moore http://www.michaelmoore.com/2000_11_08.html
it provides the link to a page that has the contact information for your state senators congressmen and governor. Call them today and we really might be able to change this thing.

Great everything and anything you do will help

[plural.livejournal.com]

But I want to make a clarification

Bush did not steal the peoples vote
this is a flaw in our system
some allegations have been made
of voter irregularities in certain
counties of Florida.

but that is not what this is about

this is about
Keeping the election of the presidency
in the hands of all the people
and not letting our votes be wasted

I will not stand by
and watch the candidate who was
elected by the majority of the popular vote
by a margin of some 200,000 people
be pushed aside because of a single state
and the choices of as few as 1000 voters
in that state.

to clarify

[millionz.livejournal.com]

Plural,

I did not intend to imply that Bush had rigged the election in Florida. And obviously Bush is not the creator of the electoral process so really he is not the one to blame if Al Gore does indeed lose despite a popular vote win. "Stop Bush's theft of the people's will" is merely passionate rhetoric first written by Moore and lifted by me. But should Gore lose the electoral vote but win the popular vote how can a Bush refusal to step aside be anything but a Theft of the people's will. Again I urge all to call their senators today whether you live in a Bush state or not.

Amen

[revjim.livejournal.com]

A have posted a link to this entry in my journal.

I support your idea, however crazy, 100%.

If there are enough of us... we can still make a difference....

The Idea of influencing electorals

[ajaypatel.livejournal.com]

Doing what you are doing would undermine the system of government that we presently have established. The electoral college, believe it or not is set up for your protection only. Being from New Jersey, we would be a state that would otherwise be ignored if not for the electoral college, due to the fact that more votes could be won simply by going to neighboring NYC, and Philadelphia. Because I voted amongst a smaller group of people toward a set electors, my vote meant more, as did everyone else out there. To now create a campaign amongst the electors would just further this country and its system going south. In the constitution it was determined that the states mandate how the electors be split up. The reason that some states mandate that the electors must vote a certain way is because that is how the state and ITS RESIDENT PEOPLE has decided it. Most all of the states do not have penalties because it is not believed that an elector should be forced. To them go ahead and convince electors OUT of YOUR home state would be a crime against the foundations of this country and the states and their people whom the elector is to represent. Vice President Al Gore and Texas Governor George W. Bush have both outright expressed their feelings that they agree with the system that is in place. The electors are very well informed voters, and are specifically chosen to do their job. Most people argue that campaign finances, and money being spent is getting out of hand, well look what you are doing right now. You are looking to raise money, for a cause. As the stakes get larger so does the money, and yet many of us would still cry blue over the spending of money but its movements like this that cause it. Also, doing this for a candidate would actually create voter fraud. To pay an electors fine for changing his vote can be perceived as bribery, a federal offence that would do nothing but hurt your cause. Whether you support Bush or Gore, the best thing to do now is to sit and wait to see what happens. Trying to go out and get a hold of these electors would be an irresponsible act towards our constitution, and quite possibly towards the candidate that you support.
Thank you
Ajay Patel

Re: The Idea of influencing electorals

[plural.livejournal.com]

Firstly
I am not doing this out of support
for a particular candidate
but as I have said before
I honesty dislike both candidates
However I have strong objection to this election
being decided by a minute handful of Florida voters
I understand the rational and the benefits of the electoral system as it was intended

I disagree that the electors are chosen because of their qualifications as well informed voters
From what I have learned, electors both in the Democratic and Republican Camps are often selected
as a mark of distinction for service and dedication to their parties.

I am not trying to force or bribe any elector to come around to my point of view
which is simply that the Popular vote should hold more sway than the vote of a few people in Florida.

I believe very strongly that the electors should vote in line with the national popular vote
a view which you disagree with, and I can see the merits in your views.
I also believe that an elector should not be punished for making a choice
of conscience and voting in line with the national popular vote.

I am saying, and organizing people who agree with my point of view, that
I support any elector that choose to agree with us and act upon their conscience

A republican elector is not going to vote for Gore simply because
I have offered to assist in shouldering the burden of any financial or legal
consequences of that vote. They may however, through an uprising of grass roots
support come to see our point of view and vote accordingly.
As such I do not feel they should be punished for
acting in accordance with their conscience.

a separate note, I have discussed this with my attorneys
and they will be researching it in depth to assure
that this process is done without violating any
state or federal laws. But their initial impression
was that this would not be a violation of law.

I greatly appreciate the time and thought you put into
writing your response. I enjoy greatly enjoy hearing and
discussing differing points of view.

Sincerely

Plural

Too bad i'm not there

[marcoo.livejournal.com]

Not a bad plan at all

Re: The Idea of influencing electorals

[realkate.livejournal.com]

It has happened before that voters from the electoral college have changed their vote under pressure of public opinion. Usually it doesn't effect the outcome of the election.

The electoral college was established not as a way to protect people but because the founding fathers thought that most of the population of the US at that time was too stupid to understand voting. They created it as a stop gap to protect the process. It is an outdated system that should at least be amended if not completely dumped. If this election has shown anything it's shown the inherent flaws in the electoral college system.

Whoever ends up winning this thing has my sympathy, they not only will have the scandal of what's going on in FL hanging over their heads they will also have to deal with a severely divided country.

The whole thing is a mess.

-=K=-

Re: The Idea of influencing electorals

[jlb.livejournal.com]

I have an important response to your comment about how the electoral college gives our home-state a louder voice even though it has less people.

My comment is - that's exactly one of the problems with the electoral system. Why should your vote be worth any more than anyone elses simply because you live in a smaller state?

That doesn't make sense at all, if you actually think about it. All it does is unbalance things.

Of course if it was a strictly popular vote a candidate might choose to ignore certain states because of the small number of voters there.

Guess what? Candidates already ignore states because the state's electoral votes are obviously going the opposite ways.

Is it that important that you have the presidential candidates come to your state and kiss your feet, even though you're a tiny group of people compared to other areas? I realize it feels good and everything, but it doesn't really make sense.

Not that I think a popular vote is the answer either, a real working system is somewhat complicated.

[lique.livejournal.com]

Thank you, for actually thinking. :)

[morningglory.livejournal.com]

woo, this plan is wonderful. im all for it. im going to link this on my journal and my site. ive forwarded it to both my parents and tons of friends. you are a very smart man. Keep thinking like this and you may actually get somewhere. i like it when people do and not just say.
::sighs for only being 16 and not able to vote::
::sighs again::