plural | A Dream of a nice Jewish girl, shared for the benefit of my dear pb but not for j

A Dream of a nice Jewish girl, shared for the benefit of my dear pb but not for j

I was
with bicycle
in hand fitting
it onto the rack
of a sea blue
Porsche boxter
my brother assists me
a vibrant green voyager
is parked behind the Porsche
somehow I am responsible
for getting both vehicles
downtown

my brother and I discuss
this and he
offers to help
at the last minute
he decides
he doesn't wish to
deal with traffic
and will just ride his
bicycle downtown
on his own
leaving me
with quite a
dilemma

the dream fades out
and back

and I am in
a mcdonalds
with my brother
and my nephew
my brother offers me fries
they are of the steak cut variety
I accept a few and munch away
at which point it hits me

what the hell
is my brother
doing eating
in a mcdonalds

for those who don't know
my brother is a very orthodox Jew
and would never even stop
in a mcdonalds to get a drink
for fear that he might give
someone else the impression
that it is kosher
and that they make the mistake of
eating traife (not-kosher) food
because of that

then I notice
the mcdonalds
is full of black hat wearing
orthodox Jews

at this point
I must inquire
and am informed
that the mcdonalds
is owned by a Jew
and is certified kosher

if wonders will never cease
among these
black hatters
a young woman
of surpassing beauty
with braids in her hair
not little girl braids
more like flower-child braids
honey blonde hair
and blue-grey eyes like the rain

we speak briefly
and blissfully

my brother introduces
me to several of the
other men around
including her brother
whom she is sitting next to.
her brother does me
the kindness of a formal
introduction.

a weird note
perhaps I was struck by her
beauty, but I could not
remember a thing
we had talked about
upon meeting her
when we were re-introduced

his family
extended as most
very orthodox families are
had an entire corner area
of the restaurant (as much as I hate to call it so)
divided off for themselves
with wives, husbands and babes

I spent some time
talking with her
and her brother
mostly to be polite
it was her I was fascinated with
when I felt
this strange
magnetism
slowly but surely
pulling me towards her
at first I though it
was just my waxing heart
but surely no
I felt it in my feet
and it grew in strength

I commented upon it
as it was becoming obvious
that I was leaning back to
counter act it pull
and she laughed
thinking me all the fool
I am sure

I wiggled my feet
and moved my legs
to examine the effect
of this strange pull

and as it grew stronger
and her look grew
even more curious
I simply smiled
and said
watch
leaning back
and bring my feet to a plane
I skidded rapidly
past (nearly missing) her
towards the corner of the room
in a way that could not be
self propelled.

I almost fell
so sharp was the
release of this mysterious force

I set to investigate
and immediately
noticed the familiar
wires and boxes
of a tinkerer

I cataloged the components
made a smiling remark
in approval of
the redundant power arrays

her brother smiled
and explained the
rest of the system to me

she laughed
as she had been
in on the joke
but not at me

we spoke for a few
minutes more
before she
excused herself
and left

I hesitated
not being recently familiar
with the courting rituals
of the orthodox and
not wishing to start off
on the wrong foot

so I asked my new friend
(her brother)
what protocol would be?
he said
well generally
one would determine
if the lady is interested first,
do you know if she is interested?
(being coy)
well I must admit
I replied I do not
but I could ask her brother
and gain his valuable insight
(right back atcha)

smiling he replied
well I would say
she is at least curious
for she made herself
at least 10 minutes late
staying to talk with you.

so then my new found friend
what is the next step

well he replied
getting permission
to marry her
would be most difficult
and would require
much to satisfy her
father.

I wish I could relay
what I did next
and what steps I took
but in truth I woke up
perhaps
as not to waste
any
time

I find it particularly interesting
perhaps it relates to my complete ignorance of courting rituals
among the orthodox that my mind would
make the jump from interest to marriage

ah well, I thought it peculiar in any regards

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

it is peculiar. i failed to read the title before i read your journal entry. and you got my hopes up for a kosher mcd's. ah well... it will probably never happen.

There is indeed
a kosher McDonalds
and I have eaten there

of course
you will have to travel
to london
but
I suppose
if one needs an excuse?

oh wow!! please give me the address.
and next time i'm in england, near london,
i will have to go out of my way to go to mcd's.
this is exciting.
i'm easily excited, no?
where does this london mcd's get its food from?
i'm sure the rabbis wouldn't approve of this particular mcd's getting their food from the same place that non-kosher mcd's gets their food.

well seeing as
my parents took me
when I was ten.
some fifteen years ago

I cant remember the exact
address off hand.

although a part of my
mind wants to say
it is in golders green
but I couldnt say
for sure

I recall vaguely
having to go upstairs from
a regular McDonalds to the
kosher section.

as for where it gets its
food I would not know
but seeing as the standard
mcdonalds beef would not be
slaughtered in accordance
with the laws of kashrut

it would be a fair assumption
that it is procured from
a kosher butcher.

yes i would imagine so.
just that then, it's a different restaurant
in the style of mcd's really.
must taste different than the other mcd's.
regular mcd's are so not kosher in so many ways.
i figure that the kosher one would get its food from an entirely different place really.
it wouldn't be kosher if it got its food from a place where non-kosher foods are there... (ie: hamburger buns that are near corn oil or butter or something like that).

well it is technically a franchisee
and quite frankly
I dont remember it tasting
any differently than
any other mcd's

if I recall correctly
from discussions on the
subject, my parents had.
The majority of the food
comes from the same suppliers
and is kosher
(meaning that in theory atleast when it leaves the bakery, all the buns in london would be kosher etc)
and I had a fishwich at the time, as did my mother, I do not recall what the others had.
but I could not say for sure that they even offered hamburgers in the kosher section.

I know under franchisee agreements
generally the franchisee must agree
to purchase all of their food and supplies (paper bags etc.) from the parent company.

but you have a good point
I suppose I will have to revisit it
and do a taste test
been needing a reason to
go to europe anyway

heh... i knew there was a reason why i saved this email...
my bf went to london and wasn't able to locate the kosher mcd's... perhaps it's in another city?

why do you think you ignore some of the orthodox ways / rules of dating?

hmm
you mean
why am I such a sinner?

that would be a good question

I have at various points in my
life had various excuses
for my various sins

but I think it comes down
to this in the end

I really have no impetous to
follow any of gods laws.

why I do follow many of them
is as much a mystery to me
as why I do not.

I guess I found a balance
between grace and sin
which is comfortable to me

but I have no justification
of my sins, nor excuses
for them.

do you really believe they are sins?

and
yes I do
but I dont feel guilty about it

i was anxious to know your answer... s'all...

so what about you?

what about me?

all those questions you asked me...

firstly I suppose
what level of judaism do you subscribe to
(monthly weekly daily?)

why do you not keep
which ever of the 613 you
do not

and do you feel they are sins?

i feel that some of god's commands are outdated. ie: do not let a blade touch whatever part of your face. the point of that mitzvot was to differentiate yourself from other tribes. ie: the whole matrilineal decent thing... back then, they had that rule cuz they couldn't tell who the father was. but today, there are dna tests... whatnot up the wazoo. what kind of need is there for those today? i can probably write essays upon essays on how i feel about the mitzvot and how some hassidic and orthodox jews have used some mitzvot so hurtfully against me. right now, it's past 6 am... and i want to go into sleeping land. where good things usually happen. but before i go... as for what level of judaism i subscribe to... hmm... hard question. i don't think i really do. i don't count really. i guess i can explain that at a later time. of the 613, i keep the few main fundamental ones... as for if it's a sin, it depends on the rule broken.

"as for if it's a sin, it depends on the rule broken."

i guess that doesn't quite match how i feel. i do think if you break a rule, it is a sin. but i think some are justifiable like the reasons i gave above (directly due to modernity). i know you will not justify yourself for having broken a rule, but i really think (not necessarily to say you're wrong) that it's up to interpretation to decide whether or not a particular rule still applies today. i mean, everyone is supposed to question the testament / torah / whathaveyou. oh dear... i'm going to bed ... now! :P

while many of the laws in the torah
can be assigned common sense by man
it just that.

God did not give justifications for his commandments.

He said, dont do this, dont do that, oh and you need to do this.

the why and in many case the how, was determined and assigned by man, in order to help us perform the duties which god assigned us, or particularly in the case of the why, to help us understand and relate to god, and perhaps why he may have given us such a commandment.

Not so that we could second guess god, the reasons for god's commandments are god's own, whatever meaning we mortals may assign to them.

and until god steps up and says:

oh by the way, yall are so modern now, you dont need that law any more, have a nice day.

it is remains gods will and command that we follow that law.

To do otherwise is simply to disobey god.

hmm... i fear this is where we will disagree. i just can't see or understand how some things that are so good can be a sin. i listen and listen and try to find answers. i get warm welcomes here but cold shoulders there. i just can't see it. i think i would have to have been raised in a strict orthodox home to truly understand.

This will be an extreme example so bear with me here, I think you will find the correlation is valid.

For a sinner to say, that a particular thing is so good and therefore cant really be a sin

is the same as a rapist saying that it makes him feel so good, how wrong can it really be?

it is an excuse, nothing more.

I will never judge you for your sins, real or percieved, but I will call you on your excuses.

To be a jew at the most basic level
has one qualification

you must accept that the torah is the word of god, and accept that god will is law.

Acceptance of god's covenant is what made abraham a jew, the acceptance of the torah at har sinai, is what made the nation of israel god's chosen people.

You cant say that you are a jew, and not accept the covenant. that covenant with god is what seperates Jew from goyim.

I have absolutly no problem, with people saying that they dont agree with a particular rabbi's interpretation of a law. but many laws are very clear, and i think you are making justifications for what you know are sins, to say that you know better than god, is incredible arrogance.

now I want to be clear, I am not meaning this to attack you, but I think you need to think about this.

I sin, I dont really care about it, I eat a cheeseburger cause I enjoy it

But I will not say, that because I enjoy eating the cheeseburger, that it is not a sin, thats just poor logic.

Sins are arbitrary laws, god gave em, the jews accepted them. I dont believe speeding is wrong, but it is a law, just because I like to speed, doesnt change that.

you posted before on my journal that you have tried conservative, reform, etc. judaism... and you said it didn't quite fit. why? for example... conservative judaism has the same major beliefs (ie: one and only god), in fact, all of the branches of judaism have that one major belief... otherwise it wouldn't be judaism, would it? what is it about conservative judaism, for example, that doesn't fit really?

hmm
I wouldnt say I have tried
the other variants, but I have
explored their belief structures.

why would I not consider
becoming one?

because while I may not
choose to follow a particular
law for one reason or another

I do not believe any less
that it was god's command.

To say that the will of god
is outdated and call yourself
a jew, that I find hard to swallow.

If we are speaking of an aspect or extrapolation of a commandment, for example, in the torah, it forbids the cooking of a kid in its mothers milk, now orthodox rabbis have extrapolated this to say, that you should not only not eat milk and meat together, but you should not eat milk and fowl together. God did not say dont eat cheese on your chicken and you can freely eat eggs with chicken. so to say that you feel differently and will eat a chicken sandwich with cheese is not saying that god was wrong but that a man was.
and I can accept that easily.

but I have heard the arguement, (not that I am assigning it to your lips) that pork was forbidden because for health reason, as pork like chicken or turkey must be cooked to 165 degrees as opposed to 150 for beef and lamb, in order to ensure that any harmfull bacteria have been killed, and since we can now properly prepare it that it is no longer necessary to follow that commandment.

to this I call bullshit. In the torah it says specifically, in fact swine is the only animal forbidden by name to be eaten. (all the rest are excluded by lack of required characteristics)

so those who eat swine, primarily reform, are saying, yes I am jew, and I believe in the torah, but god was wrong here, so I have decided to correct it in my life.

it is simply a bullshit justification of their sin, and that quite frankly disturbs me more, than the fact that they eat swine.

>To say that the will of god
>is outdated and call yourself
>a jew, that I find hard to swallow.

in what way? i guess, i don't want to get into the whole "who is a jew" schpeel..as that discussion may be endless pages long. i'm trying to understand what you are really saying... why are you disturbed that conservatives, reforms, etc. still consider themselves jews if they say some rules are outdated? no...nevermind... i guess i understand what you are saying. live thoughts here... unfiltered. unplugged. heh.

rabbis have extrapolated many many things. what i don't get is that some would follow the rabbis interpretation as if it were god's actual command. i feel that each person should question what they have doubts on. when god said don't work on the sabbath, some people have taken that as far as to mean integral of pdv...or any type of work...be it turning on a light switch or driving a car. there is a thick line between pickiness and god's intentions. and it seems like people just erase that line sometimes.

as for the whole swine issue, i think people were trying to explain why god gave that command. and who knows what it is... i understand it was god's command but i think it's ok to question it...and ask why. and i understand that... because i know i can't just blindly follow things without any reason to...

i fancy you will post up a comment on how wrong i am to do some of the things i do as others have done. that or you will post nothing at all. in your eyes and many others', i have sinned. if i speak to god tomorrow face to face, and he says that i have sinned, then by all means, i will deem myself a sinner. it's not that i can't admit that i have sinned, just that i can't see how something so wonderful can be bad.

In my yeshiva
we were taught to question
everything.

But if you remember
when god asked the jews at har sinai
if they would accept his laws
we replied, we will obey and we will hear
in that order

We promised to obey his laws before we knew what his laws were.

We obey his laws, and then we learn the why so that we may be closer to god.

Now all of this may sound, peculiar coming from an admitted sinner like myself.

but I have a great belief in god, and out of respect, for myself and for god, I make no excuses for my sins.

In jewish law, we are not allowed to judge another's sins, what sins are between man and god, are gods alone to judge.

beside who the hell am I to judge you?

I will not say you are a bad person, in fact, I regard you rather highly, and no matter how much bacon you eat, wont change that opinion.

have you ever done cocaine?
it is fucking amazing a great rush
but it is a simple fact
that it is very bad for you.

I think with the commandments it is the same.
that you like it, that you enjoy it, does not
affect its qualitative existence.

One day we will all face our maker, and he will probably clear the whole mess up rather nicely.

but until then
we are on our own
*grin*

i've been saving this email for a long time now in my inbox...
i am sure now that it is well hidden from your posts by now.
and perhaps no one will see this....
in light of this thread,
i wanted to tell you where i was coming from.
and perhaps you already knew.
it was about interfaith marriages...
my bf is jewish and i am
not.
and my orthodox jewish friends have been
nothing close to a friend like they used to be
when they found out.
anyways... that what this was all about i guess.
and that why i feel attacked sometimes...

anyways... i wish you and amber luck!
i used to live around where amber lives...
my undergrad was in nyc
and nowadays i'm in jersey...
and live near that mahwah she talked of the other day in her journal.

l8r....

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

A Dream of a nice Jewish girl, shared for the benefit of my dear pb but not for j

no subject

ask and you shall recieve

Re: ask and you shall recieve

hmm you would ask of particulars

i would?

hmm

l8

no subject

no subject

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my your quick, like greased lightning

Re: my your quick, like greased lightning

wasnt meant in a bad way :-)

i know... ;)

third verse, same as the first

Re: third verse, same as the first

let me rephrase that last part....

hmm here I will disagree

Re: hmm here I will disagree

disagreement is a beautiful thing

Re: third verse, same as the first

no subject

no subject

To question god, is to know him

Re: To question god, is to know him