I've given this some thought. And yes I'm sorry for my ancient sisters. But throughout the world no one has any rights except for those we take and can defend. Women accepted this domination, personally I'd call nighttime and access to anything sharp and stabby "deliverance."
Also woman rise the children, they also get to chose what child makes it to adulthood -- if they wanted more rights and better treatment they should have chosen more wisely.
This wasn't a guilt trip, it was just how things worked for millenia. Women were physically smaller. Women were physically weaker. We take on a man, even with a weapon, and we still don't have the greatest of odds, from the time when men were big game hunters in ancient history, to the time of men being warriors from then on. But, thats probably also why women, in most cultures, were also barred from carrying weapons or using weapons against a man. We could use a knife in the kitchen or dayroom for sewing, but found outside the household or accused of using a spear, knife, sword against a man (even in the case of self protection) was punishable by death in except in a few rare cultures. With women often sequestered to their homes, there was little opportunity for group movement. It kept them out of other mens beds, and it kept them unable to organize. Greek culture through medieval Europe, and what I've read about Ancient Chinese, and Indian cultures, women were only allowed out with accompaniment by slaves... for their own protection, and for their husband's sweet personal ejaculate vessel.
Women did accept this domination,... the husband usually offered some form of protection against rape and murder (unless the husband was who she needed to be afraid of... which was a problem) and pregnant young girls and women did not have to work in the laundry mills or brothel to feed and clothe themselves... because when the only way to make a living is a sequestered wife, a farm wife, a prostitute, or a laundress, well... the choice is obvious... even if the choice isn't particularly yours (I mean, most 10 yr olds sold by their father, who has the power to kill her if she does not go along with his deal... is probably going to stay a wife for at least awhile before she knows of any other option.. and by then she has infants to raise). Being controlled offered food, shelter and clothing, because we had very few other ways to get any of those.
What about the race of male slaves and eunuchs? Was it their fault for not stabbing enough people that they were castrated? Was it because they were happy to accept a life of servitude? Or was it because they had no other choice? Death or castration. Death or sexual slavery. What choice are most say... 7 yr old boys going to make? Survive or die? Yes, they accepted their domination in that role, but it certainly wasn't what they wanted or needed, and they certainly weren't given much credit as a human being. Thoughts?
At least in Greek, Roman and Norse cultures, women only raised the youngest children... girls sold/married between the ages of 8 and 12, boys taken away to be trained usually when they were between 8 and 10. Sure, she can kill her own kids if she is sly,... but, why? Does this accomplish anything? She can try to instill values and respect, but its mostly up to the new husband or the army to really control what kind of person the child becomes as an adult. We were there to breed and clean. We did our job to spare our lives.
The Greeks had socialized medicine, and the Spartan women were allowed many freedoms, which men were willing to give and the women were more than willing to use to their advantage when it came to making choices about their lives, legal ownership, and divorce... they had an extra career path as a warrior. The practice did not spread. Maybe because women decided they would rather have their entire fate decided by their father and/or husband... or because men revoked the system for their own political/domicile reasons.
Again,... when the choice for most women through history was between life and death, they chose to live and live under the conditions imposed by those who granted them life. Even if all the men in a particular city were stupid enough to kill every woman in the city, for ANY reason, there were cities nearby to rape, pillage and create a new generation with their women. We were tradable, stealable, controllable commodities, and we didn't have much of a say either way,... on the big scale.
Its just... the way it was. It worked. Women, each as individuals, got to live, men got to breed the next generation for the city to grow. Life for humanity continued. But that is not to say that the reason women did not have as large as an impact on history and the arts because they didn't want to... but because the vast majority of them didn't even have a chance to,.. if they wanted to live.
But, there were female writers, from Sappho in 800BC to Lady Murasaki in 900AD to Ayn Rand in the 1940s.. but rare. Stories of females renoun for their textile art, musical abilities, etc etc.. but stories and few names. At the turn of the century we start getting female engineers, scientists, inventors, mathmaticians, published fiction authors, (women's diaries have been popular for some time, though). Do you think the recent surge in women in these fields not at ALL hitched to budding female independance?
And who gave us that independance? We asked our husbands, and our husbands granted it. This was also about the time when it started to be a punishable criminal offense to kill your wife. Men made the rule. Men followed the rule, and men were finally forced to either grant the favor or kill us in a rage and maybe go to jail. They, chose the path of least resistance,.. just like we had for millenia.
Only that this is too stupid to read. Perhaps you need to feel like a victim to have some validation in your life. I don't know.
I don't understand people like you whining about how other people have suffered in the past. Why? You're not suffering --do you wish you were, is that it? What have you had to endure? Did someone force you into a marriage, guilt you into sex?
If so they're your own fucking problems. You live in a free society you have every right to say no and to seek redress.
Sure woman had a raw deal 1000 years ago. So did men. So did anyone. Christ.
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no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 01:39 pm (UTC)Also woman rise the children, they also get to chose what child makes it to adulthood -- if they wanted more rights and better treatment they should have chosen more wisely.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 09:50 pm (UTC)Women were physically smaller. Women were physically weaker. We take on a man, even with a weapon, and we still don't have the greatest of odds, from the time when men were big game hunters in ancient history, to the time of men being warriors from then on. But, thats probably also why women, in most cultures, were also barred from carrying weapons or using weapons against a man. We could use a knife in the kitchen or dayroom for sewing, but found outside the household or accused of using a spear, knife, sword against a man (even in the case of self protection) was punishable by death in except in a few rare cultures. With women often sequestered to their homes, there was little opportunity for group movement. It kept them out of other mens beds, and it kept them unable to organize. Greek culture through medieval Europe, and what I've read about Ancient Chinese, and Indian cultures, women were only allowed out with accompaniment by slaves... for their own protection, and for their husband's sweet personal ejaculate vessel.
Women did accept this domination,... the husband usually offered some form of protection against rape and murder (unless the husband was who she needed to be afraid of... which was a problem) and pregnant young girls and women did not have to work in the laundry mills or brothel to feed and clothe themselves... because when the only way to make a living is a sequestered wife, a farm wife, a prostitute, or a laundress, well... the choice is obvious... even if the choice isn't particularly yours (I mean, most 10 yr olds sold by their father, who has the power to kill her if she does not go along with his deal... is probably going to stay a wife for at least awhile before she knows of any other option.. and by then she has infants to raise). Being controlled offered food, shelter and clothing, because we had very few other ways to get any of those.
What about the race of male slaves and eunuchs? Was it their fault for not stabbing enough people that they were castrated? Was it because they were happy to accept a life of servitude? Or was it because they had no other choice? Death or castration. Death or sexual slavery. What choice are most say... 7 yr old boys going to make? Survive or die? Yes, they accepted their domination in that role, but it certainly wasn't what they wanted or needed, and they certainly weren't given much credit as a human being. Thoughts?
At least in Greek, Roman and Norse cultures, women only raised the youngest children... girls sold/married between the ages of 8 and 12, boys taken away to be trained usually when they were between 8 and 10. Sure, she can kill her own kids if she is sly,... but, why? Does this accomplish anything? She can try to instill values and respect, but its mostly up to the new husband or the army to really control what kind of person the child becomes as an adult. We were there to breed and clean. We did our job to spare our lives.
The Greeks had socialized medicine, and the Spartan women were allowed many freedoms, which men were willing to give and the women were more than willing to use to their advantage when it came to making choices about their lives, legal ownership, and divorce... they had an extra career path as a warrior. The practice did not spread. Maybe because women decided they would rather have their entire fate decided by their father and/or husband... or because men revoked the system for their own political/domicile reasons.
Again,... when the choice for most women through history was between life and death, they chose to live and live under the conditions imposed by those who granted them life. Even if all the men in a particular city were stupid enough to kill every woman in the city, for ANY reason, there were cities nearby to rape, pillage and create a new generation with their women. We were tradable, stealable, controllable commodities, and we didn't have much of a say either way,... on the big scale.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 09:50 pm (UTC)Its just... the way it was. It worked. Women, each as individuals, got to live, men got to breed the next generation for the city to grow. Life for humanity continued. But that is not to say that the reason women did not have as large as an impact on history and the arts because they didn't want to... but because the vast majority of them didn't even have a chance to,.. if they wanted to live.
But, there were female writers, from Sappho in 800BC to Lady Murasaki in 900AD to Ayn Rand in the 1940s.. but rare. Stories of females renoun for their textile art, musical abilities, etc etc.. but stories and few names. At the turn of the century we start getting female engineers, scientists, inventors, mathmaticians, published fiction authors, (women's diaries have been popular for some time, though). Do you think the recent surge in women in these fields not at ALL hitched to budding female independance?
And who gave us that independance? We asked our husbands, and our husbands granted it. This was also about the time when it started to be a punishable criminal offense to kill your wife. Men made the rule. Men followed the rule, and men were finally forced to either grant the favor or kill us in a rage and maybe go to jail. They, chose the path of least resistance,.. just like we had for millenia.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-20 05:56 pm (UTC)Only that this is too stupid to read. Perhaps you need to feel like a victim to have some validation in your life. I don't know.
I don't understand people like you whining about how other people have suffered in the past. Why? You're not suffering --do you wish you were, is that it? What have you had to endure? Did someone force you into a marriage, guilt you into sex?
If so they're your own fucking problems. You live in a free society you have every right to say no and to seek redress.
Sure woman had a raw deal 1000 years ago. So did men. So did anyone. Christ.