A culture of violence and bigotry

[plural]

this will probably piss some of you off but it has been brewing for sometime

I am literally fed up and appalled with the coddling by the liberal west of Arab and Muslim governments and militants

To quote Bill Maher

"I am not prejudiced against them, prejudiced means "pre-judging", I am judging"

Which is what I am doing here, looking at their actions, and practices and judging them according to our standards.

Take the prison situation; for Americans to be outraged makes sense such behavior is outside the norm and the boundaries of what is acceptable in Western civilization. For Arabs in middle eastern countries to be outraged is hypocritical bordering on humorous. You cannot honestly be outraged at behavior which is the culturally and societally accepted norm in your society. They are not appalled and outraged that such behavior occurred, they are appalled and outraged that it was done by Americans

When Saddam did the same, there was no Arab outcry.

When King Hussein of Jordan shelled Palestinian refugee camps for a month, slaughtering thousands, there was no Arab outcry

When Arafat has lynched, jailed, tortured or executed his political opponents, there was no Arab outcry

When the Saudis have summarily executed political activists, and dissentors, there was no Arab outcry

But if an American or Israeli does anything remotely similar, all hell breaks loose.

This isn't outrage, it is hypocrisy and racism

They say Islam is a religion of peace, and let us for a moment, assume that is true. Then the questions I must ask are:

Why is nearly every Islamic regime categorically famous for its violent human rights violations?
Why on a per capita basis does Islam produce vastly more extremist militants and terrorists than any other nation, race, or religion?

The answer I hear, is the old "Bad Apples" clause, a few rotten ones spoiling the bunch, but that simply doesn't cut it when you look and realize the extent to which their governments and societies not only approve and condone but carry out large scale human rights abuses. Lets look closely at Arab/Muslim culture, not in the western world where they function (peacefully and successfully) as a minority, but in those places where they are a majority and determine their own society:

Homosexuals are commonly killed or beaten for being homosexual
Women are second class citizens
Daughters are murdered as a result of being raped or having sex in the name of "protecting the family honor"
Wives are beaten at their husbands whim
Dismemberment and beheadings are commonly practiced forms of punishment
Democracy is unheard of
Corruption is commonplace
Censorship of both news and ideas is the rule
Terrorists who target civilians, women and children are lauded as heroes
Religious leaders give public and televised sermons espousing racism and urging the killing of women and children
State text books slander other races/religions with accusations of ritual murder and blood sacrifice
Mainstream politicians call for the destruction of sovereign countries and the extermination of their entire population
Political dissent is met with summary executions or long prison sentences
Militants use children as bombs or cover from which to launch attacks
Public figures routinely threaten the US (and other nations) with Terrorist attacks

I wonder how can any liberal westerner, who supports Human rights, Gay rights and Equality for Women. Who Fights against racism and intolerance, or advocate the Democratic Process, look themselves in the mirror and still support these regimes and this society?

When sermons like this are produced and aired on government television channels, how can we support those causes which so blatantly encourage racism, murder and gross violations of human rights?

I am honestly confused and befuddled, please explain this to me?

Comments

[jwgh]

I am literally fed up and appalled with the coddling by the liberal west of Arab and Muslim governments and militants

I dunno what coddling you are talking about here precisely. I guess perhaps you are talking about 'cultural relativism'. If so it would be as well to say so, since I don't think most 'western liberals' subscribe to the notion, or at least not to the extent of saying that if a culture wants to torture its prisoners then, hey, have at it! (It might be even better to link to an example of the kind of thing you're arguing against.)

As far as whether Arabs have a right to be outraged or not ... why shouldn't they be? As far as why Arabs might not express as much outrage over Saddam Hussein's tortures ... I dunno to what extent things like that get general reportage over there; my impression is that freedom of the press has been largely nonexistent, at least until recently. And as far as that goes the question could be turned around: Why did America express more outrage over Iraqi abuses than it did over, say, Libyan, Saudi Arabian, North Korean, Chinese, etc. etc., abuses? Partly because that's what was in the news, partly because that's what served what the American government perceived to be its best interests. Sure, it's hypocritical, but I'm not sure how many governments there are out there that aren't hypocritical on human rights. This isn't a peculiarly Arab thing, which seems to be what you're saying.

In general I would question the equating of the governments of a people with the culture of the people, particularly if the governments are oppressive dictatorships and there have been occasional attempts at rebellion that have been put down, but I think going down that road that takes me too far afield ...

[plural.livejournal.com]

The point I was making with regard to outrage, is that you cannot be outraged at behavior which is your accepted cultural norm, solely because someone outside your culture perpetrated it, when you are not outraged by someone within your culture perpetrating the same acts, without being entirely hypocritical.

For the American government to pick and choose when to express outrage over certain acts is entirely inconsistent but not directly hypocritical by reason that such acts are not the accepted cultural norm.

With Arab states, there has been a decided pattern of screaming bloody murder at the offenses or presumed offense of non-arabs, and utter silence at the offenses of arabs, this quite frankly is racism.

[jwgh]

The Arab states are largely dictatorial. It should not be particularly surprising that the actions of their governments are completely arbitrary and self-serving. Being hypocritical is the least of their sins.

I suppose that it is in America's favor that it is being hypocritical when it supports oppressive dictatorships rather than when it condemns them. That seems like an odd way to compare nations (or cultures), though.

At any rate, in this particular case it seems that the American soldiers were specifically doing things that they knew would be offensive to Muslims, specifically because they knew that the prisoners were Muslims and would find them offensive. Obviously this kind of thing would be particularly offensive to Muslims at large, but I don't know if Saddam Hussein did this also or not. If you have a reference on this I would be interested in reading it.

[plural.livejournal.com]

Again, I was not in anyway seeking to condone the actions of our soldiers in that matter, nor criticize those voices in america and other western countries who protest and express outrage over them.

yes, nearly every arab country is a dictatorship and yes there are those who would oppose them but the societies enmass accept and support the status quo, which makes them more than nominally complicit for the actions of their government, just as we are complicit in the actions of ours.

[jwgh]

Again, I was not in anyway seeking to condone the actions of our soldiers in that matter, nor criticize those voices in america and other western countries who protest and express outrage over them.

I didn't say you were. I will try to restate my point a little more clearly.

The soldiers were doing things to the prisoners specifically because these actions were supposed to be deeply offensive to Muslims. I don't think it is surprising that Muslim countries would therefore be particularly offended by these actions!

(To make an analogy, I think many Christians are more disturbed when a nun or priest is murdered then when a layperson is. Specifically I'm thinking of Argentina in 1977 here.)

This doesn't address the question of whether the countries would be hypocritical by being so offended, though, since I don't know whether or not Saddam Hussein (or whoever) also had his torturers do things to his prisoners that were specifically designed to be deeply offensive to Muslims. If you have any information on this, again, I would be interested in reading it.

yes, nearly every arab country is a dictatorship and yes there are those who would oppose them but the societies enmass accept and support the status quo, which makes them more than nominally complicit for the actions of their government, just as we are complicit in the actions of ours.

I guess you think that this is obvious, but I don't see it at all.

[plural.livejournal.com]

Ok, I can see your point about how the actions were more specifically designed to offend muslims.

as for the second.

every resident in a nation bears some complicity for the actions of their government, regardless of the form of governance. Obviously the degree of complicity scales based on the ability of the persons to effect changes in policy.

In a democracy where it is atleast theorhetically safe and easy, a citizen holds a much higher degree of complexity. But even in a dictatorship, by failing to protest or revolt, they consent to be governed and condone the policies of the administration, and thereby are complicit in its actions.

[jwgh]

Hmmm. So because I am not involved in an armed uprising against the current adminisration, I hold some culpability for its current policies?

[plural.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

Of course, in a democratic society, there are many steps which should be taken to change government policy before resorting to violent resistance, the core culpability is the same.

Ultimately, every citizen of a country, allows their government to continue its policies, and thereby holds a degree of culpability for its actions.