your words
"Recall, please:
The Palestinians were there first.
The only Israeli claim to the region is religious,
which is crap. No offense to anyone so inclined religiously.
That renders the argument moot for me."
when?
the Jewish claim to the land
has religious basis
but it also has historical basis
my people have inhabited the land
for five thousand years
sure we have been occupied
and foreign governments have ruled us
but
honey that land has switched hands
so many times in the past 5000 years
no one could have a claim based on rulership
Most recently it is the Israelis who control the land
before Israel it was the British
before the British it was the Ottomans
before the Ottomans it was the crusaders from Europe
before the crusaders it was Omar, the Second Caliph of Islam
before Omar it was the Romans
before the Romans it was the Jews
before the Jews it was the Greeks
before the Greeks it was the Jews
before the Jews it was the Babylonians
before the Babylonians it was the Jews
before the Jews it was the Canaanites
and that's just what
three thousand years of history tells us
fact, documented history, not religious texts
if you follow the old testament
which is accepted by both the Jews and the Muslims
the pattern continues for another
two thousand years
the simple fact is
that there have been Jews living in israel
for the past five thousand years
the governments have changed
the populations have changed
but there have always been Jews
yearning for a Jewish state
and around the world
in every country
in every year
my people wished
to go home
In the celebration of passover
which has just recently passed
it is said
as it has been for two thousand years
"Le shana haba beh yerushaliem"
"Next year may we be in Jerusalem"
You say that the palestinians
were there first
and all other arguments become moot
but they were not there first
because quite simply
they didn't exist
the Palestinians were created as a people
by the British government circa the 1930s
how can they lay claims of precedence going back
five thousand years?
before the 1930s there was no Palestine
there were no Palestinians
there were Jews and there were Arabs
no Israelis,
no Palestinians
there were also
Druse
Turks
Persians
Greeks
Christians
but if you look
throughout history
not religion or tales
but historical facts
verified by multiple independent sources
there is one group of people
who have consistently lived in Judea
who have ruled Judea more frequently
than any other
from the beginning of our historical records
and that is the Jews
so while that may not be enough
to lay claim to the land in the modern day
your argument of Palestinian precedence is simply
incorrect and unsubstantiated by fact
the first Jew
Abraham
five thousand some years ago
travelled to where Jerusalem would one day stand
climbed the hill and lay his son down on a stone
to be sacrificed to his god
it was there that the story of the burning bush occurred
it was that same stone that Mohammed ascended to heaven
three thousand years later
in america we claim the land we live upon
it is ours
we purchased it and have right to it
based on our inhabitance
[depending on where you live]
of less than two hundred years
even if you live in Boston or Virginia
[two of the oldest settlements]
you can only claim three or four hundred years
yet my people have lived
in Judea for five thousand years
and you claim that we have no right to be there?
you live on land that was bought with
treachery and deceit
atrocity and cruelty
our government made treaties with the Indians
and then broke them
time and time again
when the Indians protested
we slaughtered them
before you plaster my people
with accusations un-based in fact
and making uneducated statements
perhaps you should start by looking at
the place you rest your head
the land you live on
and the blood of innocents
that purchased it
please do not take this
as a personal attack
i am not meaning to insult you
or degrade you
but i have heard
this argument made
too many times
by sympathetic Americans
who know little about the situation there
[or our own history as well]
and
it is difficult for me to respond
without emotion
i was born in America
raised in America
but every time i go to Jerusalem
stand before the wailing wall
the last remaining wall of our sacred temple
deep in my soul
i know i have come home
i do not expect you to value
this internal emotion of mine
or even to understand it
[as i hardly understand it myself]
but it is there
my blood and my soul
are deeply connected to that place
that is why
even when haunted and consumed by nightmares
and daylight visions
i cannot banish from my mind
i still believe
and still will fight
for our right to live in our home
i may not change your mind
but perhaps you will understand where i come from
and understand the historical clusterfuck that exists there
"Recall, please:
The Palestinians were there first.
The only Israeli claim to the region is religious,
which is crap. No offense to anyone so inclined religiously.
That renders the argument moot for me."
when?
the Jewish claim to the land
has religious basis
but it also has historical basis
my people have inhabited the land
for five thousand years
sure we have been occupied
and foreign governments have ruled us
but
honey that land has switched hands
so many times in the past 5000 years
no one could have a claim based on rulership
Most recently it is the Israelis who control the land
before Israel it was the British
before the British it was the Ottomans
before the Ottomans it was the crusaders from Europe
before the crusaders it was Omar, the Second Caliph of Islam
before Omar it was the Romans
before the Romans it was the Jews
before the Jews it was the Greeks
before the Greeks it was the Jews
before the Jews it was the Babylonians
before the Babylonians it was the Jews
before the Jews it was the Canaanites
and that's just what
three thousand years of history tells us
fact, documented history, not religious texts
if you follow the old testament
which is accepted by both the Jews and the Muslims
the pattern continues for another
two thousand years
the simple fact is
that there have been Jews living in israel
for the past five thousand years
the governments have changed
the populations have changed
but there have always been Jews
yearning for a Jewish state
and around the world
in every country
in every year
my people wished
to go home
In the celebration of passover
which has just recently passed
it is said
as it has been for two thousand years
"Le shana haba beh yerushaliem"
"Next year may we be in Jerusalem"
You say that the palestinians
were there first
and all other arguments become moot
but they were not there first
because quite simply
they didn't exist
the Palestinians were created as a people
by the British government circa the 1930s
how can they lay claims of precedence going back
five thousand years?
before the 1930s there was no Palestine
there were no Palestinians
there were Jews and there were Arabs
no Israelis,
no Palestinians
there were also
Druse
Turks
Persians
Greeks
Christians
but if you look
throughout history
not religion or tales
but historical facts
verified by multiple independent sources
there is one group of people
who have consistently lived in Judea
who have ruled Judea more frequently
than any other
from the beginning of our historical records
and that is the Jews
so while that may not be enough
to lay claim to the land in the modern day
your argument of Palestinian precedence is simply
incorrect and unsubstantiated by fact
the first Jew
Abraham
five thousand some years ago
travelled to where Jerusalem would one day stand
climbed the hill and lay his son down on a stone
to be sacrificed to his god
it was there that the story of the burning bush occurred
it was that same stone that Mohammed ascended to heaven
three thousand years later
in america we claim the land we live upon
it is ours
we purchased it and have right to it
based on our inhabitance
[depending on where you live]
of less than two hundred years
even if you live in Boston or Virginia
[two of the oldest settlements]
you can only claim three or four hundred years
yet my people have lived
in Judea for five thousand years
and you claim that we have no right to be there?
you live on land that was bought with
treachery and deceit
atrocity and cruelty
our government made treaties with the Indians
and then broke them
time and time again
when the Indians protested
we slaughtered them
before you plaster my people
with accusations un-based in fact
and making uneducated statements
perhaps you should start by looking at
the place you rest your head
the land you live on
and the blood of innocents
that purchased it
please do not take this
as a personal attack
i am not meaning to insult you
or degrade you
but i have heard
this argument made
too many times
by sympathetic Americans
who know little about the situation there
[or our own history as well]
and
it is difficult for me to respond
without emotion
i was born in America
raised in America
but every time i go to Jerusalem
stand before the wailing wall
the last remaining wall of our sacred temple
deep in my soul
i know i have come home
i do not expect you to value
this internal emotion of mine
or even to understand it
[as i hardly understand it myself]
but it is there
my blood and my soul
are deeply connected to that place
that is why
even when haunted and consumed by nightmares
and daylight visions
i cannot banish from my mind
i still believe
and still will fight
for our right to live in our home
i may not change your mind
but perhaps you will understand where i come from
and understand the historical clusterfuck that exists there
no subject
Date: 2002-04-10 04:58 pm (UTC)the mass exodus of palestinians
during the 1948 war
created the opportunity for Israelis
to settle in the spaces left
and the palestinians
can go to the end of the line
there are two problems with that
one it is ridiculous to compare
waiting in line at the post office
with the future of any group of people
secondly you are insinuating that
the palestinians have a right to return
[but at the same time saying the jews do not]
and that the mass exodus of jews
from the land was willing
as if our nation just stood up
and said fuck it lets move to club med
the romans created the disapora
[what we call the jewish exile from israel]
the made us slaves and sent us
to every corner of their empire
we could live anywhere but in israel
There are those who would say
that the palestinians had the same circumstances
that they were forced out
and that is the basis for their demanding
the right of return
but history and modern reality
betray that claim
in 1948 the palestinians chose to leave
yes it is true
that they were genuinely frightened
but without true cause
their leaders had spoken out so often
and so loudly about exterminating the jews
who lived there when the glorius Arab armies
defeated the jews
that the arabs could not imagine
that the jews would do any less to them
in the event of a jewish victory
today there are arabs,
cousins to the palestinians
in the refugee camps
who live, work and vote in israel
they hold citizenship own land
and run businesses
they are