a response to millionz
Apr. 10th, 2001 05:28 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pluralfirstly let me say
I appreciate the thought
and effort you put
into this comment.
for others if you wish to read the original post and millionz comment
click Here
while almost to a point
you completely misunderstood
everything I wrote,
your response was a cohesive
and well thought out address
to those misconceptions.
Now I will address your comments.
Yes
welfare is a sham,
in that it purports to help people
when in reality it only serves
to keep them down.
Welfare, Medicare, SS.D
are all ways to keep the poor
as consumers in our society
without helping them
to elevate their positions.
I know people who have medical conditions,
they had good jobs,
but the employer provided medical insurance
was inadequate, they cant afford the medical bills,
but because they make a barely liveable wage,
they do not qualify for medicare,
so they have to quit their jobs and
live on a subsistence level
just to ensure that they can get
adequate medical treatment.
I am not opposed to the idea
of help when people are in need,
I am opposed to our self-righteous babble,
and claiming that is what welfare does.
Welfare is help after you have lost everything.
Have a decent job
but an accident or general misfortune
makes it hard for you to make your house or rent payments?
we wont help you save what you have worked for,
but when you lose your home cause you can't pay,
and when you lose your job cause you don't have a home,
then you can apply for government assistance.
as for your assumptions
when I was a child we got food stamps,
didn't get welfare checks I don't think,
but I remember food stamps.
my mother was a single mom,
with 3 children and
working two part time jobs
and going to college.
and
When I was 15,
I lived in a tent,
in the woods
and had to for a short time,
get food stamps myself,
to help me until I got my first paycheck
from the dairy queen which gave me a job
working just 10 hours a week.
you see it was against the law
for me to work more than 10 hours
since I wasn't 16.
I had to find other jobs
to gather enough money to move
from a tent to a place to live.
Ever tried renting an apartment
when you are 15?
so yes 10 years later
I make a good salary
but it hasn't exactly
been a walk in the park to
get here
As for your spoonfed comment,
it just illustrates that
you were completely unable
to comprehend what I was saying
and instead read the highlights
and filled in the blank with
whatever liberal rhetoric that people like me
are supposed to say.
there are people
who I believe abuse welfare,
but for the most part,
I believe
people are just not
being helped by welfare.
And you are wrong,
welfare was not designed
to make sure the poorest
do not starve and
as a stepladder to help them up.
People never seem to realize
that the liberals and the conservatives,
democrats and republicans are all
rich guys
they have the
same interests.
let me tell you something
the rich don't want the poor
to starve not out of compassion
but out of self interest
it has been proven throughout history that the primary
reasons that serfs revolt is
hunger and unfair laws/taxation.
keep the surfs fed and placated
and you can rob the world blind
I agree with you
on the pathetic state of corporate welfare,
but again you have to realize,
it is in the interest of the rich
to give those corporations tax breaks and incentives,
after all it increases the profits of the corporations
which surprise surprise
the rich are shareholders of...
I have no aversion
to a more social economy
other than it is a pipe dream.
I think it is a shame
that anyone can work forty hours a week
and not be able to support their family.
but I also think that many people are fucking lazy.
neither the government
nor the rich
have any obligation to inspire
and help you improve your situation.
one can argue
whether or not
they even have the obligation
to provide welfare type assistance.
I would say that the individuals,
especially wealthy individuals
have far more an obligation
to help those in need than the government does.
but when it comes to inspiring you
to making you
move your ass and improve your life.
only you can do that.
I have worked minimum wage jobs,
I have supported myself on minimum wage jobs,
yes it sucks
I couldn't afford my crack
or my cell phone bill
and ate egg drop ramen
just about every night
sometimes I would alternate with some rice and beans.
but I worked
80 to a 100 hours a week
for two years.
I didn't own a bed,
I slept on seven pillows
arranged under my body
on the floor of my apartment.
but
I wasn't satisfied
I kept trying
to learn more
and how to do things
which made more money.
when I wasn't working
I was reading and studying.
I didn't go to college,
I couldn't afford it.
see
I ran into the other dilemma
by the time
I stopped worrying
about my day to day existence
enough that I could consider
going to college
I was earning too much money,
to qualify for financial aid.
of course I couldn't work
80 hours a week and go to school,
I was hoping to reduce
my hours to about 30 and add school,
but they wouldn't consider what my income would be,
they had to consider what I made
at the time and as such
I didn't qualify.
I am not lacking in
compassion my friend
but I am lacking in
sympathy
if you want me
to feel bad for someone
because they are underprivileged
fuck off
as I have learned
this country
was founded on the belief
that each and every person
with hard work and effort
can make a living, and indeed
beyond that become wealthy.
but you cant just accept whatever comes along
and if your burger king job doesn't meet your needs
then find a way to develop skills that will
get you a better paying job.
of course
you will say
it is not that simple
sorry but it is that simple
I have done it.
oh but you are
a white male.
you say
you aren't disadvantage
what a crock
I can show you a dozen
friends of mine
people I have worked with
who have clawed up from harder places
than I had to,
to places higher
than I am at now.
and it wasn't advantages
that got them their
it was
determination
all you need is drive
the rest you can get on the way
but most people are too fucking lazy
so go back to your TV dinners
and Ikea couches and feel sorry
for all those nibbling government cheese
cause it makes you feel better.
spew your liberal spoon fed crap
those who write your words
care even less than you do
about the poor and underprivileged
and the hypocrisy of the middle class
is no better. but I wont get started
there today, perhaps tomorrow.
and yes
so you can hear me again
clearly
All that holds
anyone back from success
is themselves.
If you have the ambition
you can succeed,
maybe you wont be
a millionaire
but you can make a damn nice life for yourself.
if you have ambition
but are lacking education
you can go to the library,
and learn ...
it worked wonders
for the high school dropout I used to be.
if you have ambition,
you can make things work
simply by force of will.
yes there is racism,
yes there is sexism,
discrimination exists.
but it is not universal
I would even wager
that in our country today
it is the exception
and not the rule.
as for safety?
we aren't safe anywhere
but we grasp
clutch to an illusion of safety
propagated by the media to soothe
our desperate souls.
whenever anything bad happens
it is to other people
wrong place
wrong time
but those other people
are us in other clothing
with other faces
we aren't smarter
better
or more secure
we stare
rubbernecking at accidents
on the freeway
glad that it isn't us
something secret inside us
hoping to see something ugly
blood gore
smashed crushed metal
and shattered glass
thinking
oh that had gotta hurt
and secretly feeling better
feeling superior cause we
survived
we lie to each other
"how horrible that was"
but we go home and just
want the instant replays
on TV or the reality shows
that have nothing but
people suffering violent
and gruesome accidents
as for solutions
what good are solutions
when we cant agree on the problems
or deny that we have the problems
I have many ideas
perhaps I will post about them
but for now
I am going to
brave traffic
and go home
to the woman I love
and see about
spending some
quality time
before the sun
races around to come
up behind me again.
I appreciate the thought
and effort you put
into this comment.
for others if you wish to read the original post and millionz comment
click Here
while almost to a point
you completely misunderstood
everything I wrote,
your response was a cohesive
and well thought out address
to those misconceptions.
Now I will address your comments.
Yes
welfare is a sham,
in that it purports to help people
when in reality it only serves
to keep them down.
Welfare, Medicare, SS.D
are all ways to keep the poor
as consumers in our society
without helping them
to elevate their positions.
I know people who have medical conditions,
they had good jobs,
but the employer provided medical insurance
was inadequate, they cant afford the medical bills,
but because they make a barely liveable wage,
they do not qualify for medicare,
so they have to quit their jobs and
live on a subsistence level
just to ensure that they can get
adequate medical treatment.
I am not opposed to the idea
of help when people are in need,
I am opposed to our self-righteous babble,
and claiming that is what welfare does.
Welfare is help after you have lost everything.
Have a decent job
but an accident or general misfortune
makes it hard for you to make your house or rent payments?
we wont help you save what you have worked for,
but when you lose your home cause you can't pay,
and when you lose your job cause you don't have a home,
then you can apply for government assistance.
as for your assumptions
when I was a child we got food stamps,
didn't get welfare checks I don't think,
but I remember food stamps.
my mother was a single mom,
with 3 children and
working two part time jobs
and going to college.
and
When I was 15,
I lived in a tent,
in the woods
and had to for a short time,
get food stamps myself,
to help me until I got my first paycheck
from the dairy queen which gave me a job
working just 10 hours a week.
you see it was against the law
for me to work more than 10 hours
since I wasn't 16.
I had to find other jobs
to gather enough money to move
from a tent to a place to live.
Ever tried renting an apartment
when you are 15?
so yes 10 years later
I make a good salary
but it hasn't exactly
been a walk in the park to
get here
As for your spoonfed comment,
it just illustrates that
you were completely unable
to comprehend what I was saying
and instead read the highlights
and filled in the blank with
whatever liberal rhetoric that people like me
are supposed to say.
there are people
who I believe abuse welfare,
but for the most part,
I believe
people are just not
being helped by welfare.
And you are wrong,
welfare was not designed
to make sure the poorest
do not starve and
as a stepladder to help them up.
People never seem to realize
that the liberals and the conservatives,
democrats and republicans are all
rich guys
they have the
same interests.
let me tell you something
the rich don't want the poor
to starve not out of compassion
but out of self interest
it has been proven throughout history that the primary
reasons that serfs revolt is
hunger and unfair laws/taxation.
keep the surfs fed and placated
and you can rob the world blind
I agree with you
on the pathetic state of corporate welfare,
but again you have to realize,
it is in the interest of the rich
to give those corporations tax breaks and incentives,
after all it increases the profits of the corporations
which surprise surprise
the rich are shareholders of...
I have no aversion
to a more social economy
other than it is a pipe dream.
I think it is a shame
that anyone can work forty hours a week
and not be able to support their family.
but I also think that many people are fucking lazy.
neither the government
nor the rich
have any obligation to inspire
and help you improve your situation.
one can argue
whether or not
they even have the obligation
to provide welfare type assistance.
I would say that the individuals,
especially wealthy individuals
have far more an obligation
to help those in need than the government does.
but when it comes to inspiring you
to making you
move your ass and improve your life.
only you can do that.
I have worked minimum wage jobs,
I have supported myself on minimum wage jobs,
yes it sucks
I couldn't afford my crack
or my cell phone bill
and ate egg drop ramen
just about every night
sometimes I would alternate with some rice and beans.
but I worked
80 to a 100 hours a week
for two years.
I didn't own a bed,
I slept on seven pillows
arranged under my body
on the floor of my apartment.
but
I wasn't satisfied
I kept trying
to learn more
and how to do things
which made more money.
when I wasn't working
I was reading and studying.
I didn't go to college,
I couldn't afford it.
see
I ran into the other dilemma
by the time
I stopped worrying
about my day to day existence
enough that I could consider
going to college
I was earning too much money,
to qualify for financial aid.
of course I couldn't work
80 hours a week and go to school,
I was hoping to reduce
my hours to about 30 and add school,
but they wouldn't consider what my income would be,
they had to consider what I made
at the time and as such
I didn't qualify.
I am not lacking in
compassion my friend
but I am lacking in
sympathy
if you want me
to feel bad for someone
because they are underprivileged
fuck off
as I have learned
this country
was founded on the belief
that each and every person
with hard work and effort
can make a living, and indeed
beyond that become wealthy.
but you cant just accept whatever comes along
and if your burger king job doesn't meet your needs
then find a way to develop skills that will
get you a better paying job.
of course
you will say
it is not that simple
sorry but it is that simple
I have done it.
oh but you are
a white male.
you say
you aren't disadvantage
what a crock
I can show you a dozen
friends of mine
people I have worked with
who have clawed up from harder places
than I had to,
to places higher
than I am at now.
and it wasn't advantages
that got them their
it was
determination
all you need is drive
the rest you can get on the way
but most people are too fucking lazy
so go back to your TV dinners
and Ikea couches and feel sorry
for all those nibbling government cheese
cause it makes you feel better.
spew your liberal spoon fed crap
those who write your words
care even less than you do
about the poor and underprivileged
and the hypocrisy of the middle class
is no better. but I wont get started
there today, perhaps tomorrow.
and yes
so you can hear me again
clearly
All that holds
anyone back from success
is themselves.
If you have the ambition
you can succeed,
maybe you wont be
a millionaire
but you can make a damn nice life for yourself.
if you have ambition
but are lacking education
you can go to the library,
and learn ...
it worked wonders
for the high school dropout I used to be.
if you have ambition,
you can make things work
simply by force of will.
yes there is racism,
yes there is sexism,
discrimination exists.
but it is not universal
I would even wager
that in our country today
it is the exception
and not the rule.
as for safety?
we aren't safe anywhere
but we grasp
clutch to an illusion of safety
propagated by the media to soothe
our desperate souls.
whenever anything bad happens
it is to other people
wrong place
wrong time
but those other people
are us in other clothing
with other faces
we aren't smarter
better
or more secure
we stare
rubbernecking at accidents
on the freeway
glad that it isn't us
something secret inside us
hoping to see something ugly
blood gore
smashed crushed metal
and shattered glass
thinking
oh that had gotta hurt
and secretly feeling better
feeling superior cause we
survived
we lie to each other
"how horrible that was"
but we go home and just
want the instant replays
on TV or the reality shows
that have nothing but
people suffering violent
and gruesome accidents
as for solutions
what good are solutions
when we cant agree on the problems
or deny that we have the problems
I have many ideas
perhaps I will post about them
but for now
I am going to
brave traffic
and go home
to the woman I love
and see about
spending some
quality time
before the sun
races around to come
up behind me again.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
I wanted to say something..
Date: 2001-04-10 05:42 pm (UTC)So? Just a note to say I _want_ to have something to say.
no subject
Date: 2001-04-10 05:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-04-10 05:46 pm (UTC)Being a fellow who grew up in the 70's and had friends whose parents threw no fault of their own were thrown out into the street due (as we know now) to economic globalization, I really can't accept your thesis guy. Sometimes the world will fuck you right up the ass no matter how hard you work, nor how pure your heart or the heat of your ambition...
Hard time are coming P... Will you sing the same toon when people posting here are out of work and no matter how hard they try they can't find a job? What will you say if you wake up one morning and find 500 adults PRAYING to get that ONE job available at McDonalds so their kids won't go hungry? What would you do if the market in Seattle caves in, and six months from now and you can't sell it for even enough money to pay off the mortgage, but you have to because the only job you can find is in some shit-hole little burg in OH?
Life is a long time, and has many twists...
my oh my.
Date: 2001-04-10 05:57 pm (UTC)how i hope
the kids get
your brains
and wit.
your looks,
too.
well
they can
have my
nose.
you still
amaze me.
and
yes
its a
good thing.
love you
love me.
Re: my oh my.
Date: 2001-04-10 06:03 pm (UTC)that statement
i just made
does NOT
mean i agree
with you in
every way.
i just love
your words.
and ideas.
no matter what
they are.
just wanted
to clear
that up.
no subject
Date: 2001-04-10 06:06 pm (UTC)One thought though. The lower class almost never revolts, and almost never has. It's usually the upper middle class; they have the education and the means to affect large scale changes.
quite so
Date: 2001-04-10 06:34 pm (UTC)disagree that life often
throws us
curveballs
the difference is
how we handle it
and your parents
I am assuming are not still
on the street, and
most likely are doing pretty
well for themselves.
that is proof of my thesis
that anyone with hard work
and desire can
make a comfortable life
for themselves.
I never said shit doesnt happen
nor did I say that I dont think
people deserve a helping hand
when it does.
but there is always a door
that you can choose
if you dont see it
then you closing your
mind to possibilities
If the market crashed
and I lost my house
and my job
that would suck
and it may even take me
years to recover
but I would recover
because nothing else is
acceptable to me
if that means mopping floors
and scrubbing toilets
or scavenging for food
so be it
I have done it before
no subject
Date: 2001-04-10 06:38 pm (UTC)what they have
is the ambition
and the knowledge that
things can be better
than what they have
where as the poor
are generally too
concerned with
feeding themselves
but yes
you are correct
no subject
Date: 2001-04-10 06:45 pm (UTC)Grazie :D
(Yahtzee!)
Re: quite so
Date: 2001-04-10 07:10 pm (UTC)I have no doubt you would do what it took to do the right thing, but you are of stronger stuff than most.
no subject
Date: 2001-04-10 07:54 pm (UTC)You have written a lot and right now I just don't have time to consume it all. Also the Phillies just won and my world view is slightly brighter. Perhaps tomorrow I will have more to say...
I must agree wholeheartedly
Date: 2001-04-10 08:13 pm (UTC)I admit my
style of
debate may be somewhat
confrontational
I take great delight in
dissenting points of view
good sir
you are most welcome
to disagree as often
and as vehemently
as you can muster
sincerely
plural