An email from one of my Kansas cousins
Jul. 31st, 2006 09:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
plural[nearly all of whom are currently or have previously served in the US Navy]
[never figured out why, it just seems to be that they all end up there eventually]
[now I'm not entirely sure it is actually written by him]
[cause he didnt sign his name/rank at the bottom]
[and while I think it neglects a few of the complicating factors]
[with regard to the relatiosn between the government of lebanon and the HA]
[I found it interesting enough to share]
A Difficult Lesson
When I was in the Navy, I once witnessed a bar fight in downtown Olongapo
(Philippines) that still haunts my dreams. The fight was between a big
oafish Marine and a rather soft-spoken, medium sized Latino sailor from my
ship.
All evening the Marine had been trying to pick a fight with one of us and
had finally set his sights on this diminutive shipmate of mine...figuring
him for a safe target. When my friend refused to be goaded into a fight the
Marine sucker punched him from behind on the side of the head so hard that
blood instantly started to pour from this poor man's mutilated ear.
Everyone present was horrified and was prepared to absolutely murder this
Marine, but my shipmate quickly turned on him and began to single-handedly
back him towards a corner with a series of stinging jabs and upper cuts that
gave more than a hint to a youth spent boxing in a small gym in the Bronx.
Each punch opened a cut on the Marine's startled face and by the time he had
been backed completely into the corner he was blubbering for someone to stop
the fight. He invoked his split lips and chipped teeth as reasons to stop
the fight. He begged us to stop the fight because he could barely see
through the river of blood that was pouring out of his split and swollen
brows.
Nobody moved. Not one person.
The only sound in the bar was the sickening staccato sound of this sailor's
lightning fast fists making contact with new areas of the Marine's head.
The only sound I have heard since that was remotely similar was from the
first Rocky film when Sylvester Stallone was punching sides of beef in the
meat locker.
Finally the Marine's pleading turned to screams.... a high, almost womanly
shriek. And still the punches continued relentlessly.
Several people in the bar took a few tentative steps as though they wanted
to try to break it up at that point, but hands reached out from the crowd
and held them tight. I'm not ashamed to say that mine were two of the hands
that held someone back.
You see, in between each blow the sailor had begun chanting a soft cadence:
"Say [punch] you [punch] give [punch] up [punch]... say [punch] you
[punch]were [punch] wrong [punch]".
He had been repeating it to the Marine almost from the start but we only
became aware of it when the typical barroom cheers had died down and we
began to be sickened by the sight and sound of the carnage.
This Marine stood there shrieking in the corner of the bar trying futilely
to block the carefully timed punches that were cutting his head to
tatters... right down to the skull in places. But he refused to say that he
gave up... or that he was wrong.
Even in the delirium of his beating he believed in his heart that someone
would stop the fight before he had to admit defeat. I'm sure this strategy
had served him well in the past and had allowed him to continue on his
career as a barroom bully.
Finally, in a wail of agony the Marine shrieked "I give up", and we gently
backed the sailor away from him.
I'm sure you can guess why I have shared this story today.
I'm not particularly proud to have been witness to such a bloody spectacle,
and the sound of that Marine's woman-like shrieks will haunt me to my grave.
But I learned something that evening that Israel had better learn for itself
if it is to finally be rid of at least one of its tormentors:
This is one time an Arab aggressor must be allowed to be beaten so badly
that every civilized nation will stand in horror, wanting desperately to
step in and stop the carnage... but knowing that the fight will only truly
be over when one side gives up and finally admits defeat.
Just as every person who had ever rescued that bully from admitting defeat
helped create the cowardly brute I saw that evening in the bar, every
well-intentioned power that has ever stepped in and negotiated a ceasefire
for an Arab aggressor has helped create the monsters we see around us today.
President Lahoud of Lebanon, a big Hezbollah supporter and a close ally of
Syria, has been shrieking non-stop to the UN Security Council for the past
few days to get them to force Israel into a cease fire.
Clearly he has been reading his autographed copy of 'Military Success for
Arab Despots' by the late Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt. Ever since Nasser
accidentally discovered the trick in '56, every subsequent Arab leader has
stuck to his tried and true formula for military success:
1.. Instigate a war.
2.. Once the war is well underway and you are in the process of having your
ass handed to you... get a few world powers to force your western opponent
into a cease fire.
3.. Whatever you do, don't surrender or submit to any terms dictated by your
enemy. That would ruin everything! All you have to do is wait it out and
eventually the world will become sickened at what is being done to your
soldiers and civilian population... and will force a truce.
4.. Once a truce has been called you can resume your intransigence (which
probably caused the conflict in the first place),
and even declare victory as your opponent leaves the field of battle.
This tactic has never failed. Not once.
In fact it worked so will for the Egyptians in 1973, that to this day they
celebrate the Yom Kippur War - a crushing defeat at the hands of Israel - as
a military victory! No kidding... it's a national holiday over there!
President Lahoud has already begun to shriek like a school girl to the UN
Security Council to "Stop the violence and arrange a cease-fire, and then
after that we'll be ready to discuss all matters."
Uh huh. Forgive me if I find that a tad hard to swallow. He allowed
Hezbollah to take over his country. He allowed the regular Lebanese army to
provide radar targeting data for the Hezbollah missile that struck the
Israeli destroyer. He has turned a blind eye while Iranian and Syrian
weapons, advisers and money have poured into his country.
And now that his country is in ruins he wants to call it a draw.
As much as it may sicken the world to stand by and watch it happen, strong
hands need to hold back the weak-hearted and let the fight continue until
one side finally admits unambiguous defeat.
[never figured out why, it just seems to be that they all end up there eventually]
[now I'm not entirely sure it is actually written by him]
[cause he didnt sign his name/rank at the bottom]
[and while I think it neglects a few of the complicating factors]
[with regard to the relatiosn between the government of lebanon and the HA]
[I found it interesting enough to share]
A Difficult Lesson
When I was in the Navy, I once witnessed a bar fight in downtown Olongapo
(Philippines) that still haunts my dreams. The fight was between a big
oafish Marine and a rather soft-spoken, medium sized Latino sailor from my
ship.
All evening the Marine had been trying to pick a fight with one of us and
had finally set his sights on this diminutive shipmate of mine...figuring
him for a safe target. When my friend refused to be goaded into a fight the
Marine sucker punched him from behind on the side of the head so hard that
blood instantly started to pour from this poor man's mutilated ear.
Everyone present was horrified and was prepared to absolutely murder this
Marine, but my shipmate quickly turned on him and began to single-handedly
back him towards a corner with a series of stinging jabs and upper cuts that
gave more than a hint to a youth spent boxing in a small gym in the Bronx.
Each punch opened a cut on the Marine's startled face and by the time he had
been backed completely into the corner he was blubbering for someone to stop
the fight. He invoked his split lips and chipped teeth as reasons to stop
the fight. He begged us to stop the fight because he could barely see
through the river of blood that was pouring out of his split and swollen
brows.
Nobody moved. Not one person.
The only sound in the bar was the sickening staccato sound of this sailor's
lightning fast fists making contact with new areas of the Marine's head.
The only sound I have heard since that was remotely similar was from the
first Rocky film when Sylvester Stallone was punching sides of beef in the
meat locker.
Finally the Marine's pleading turned to screams.... a high, almost womanly
shriek. And still the punches continued relentlessly.
Several people in the bar took a few tentative steps as though they wanted
to try to break it up at that point, but hands reached out from the crowd
and held them tight. I'm not ashamed to say that mine were two of the hands
that held someone back.
You see, in between each blow the sailor had begun chanting a soft cadence:
"Say [punch] you [punch] give [punch] up [punch]... say [punch] you
[punch]were [punch] wrong [punch]".
He had been repeating it to the Marine almost from the start but we only
became aware of it when the typical barroom cheers had died down and we
began to be sickened by the sight and sound of the carnage.
This Marine stood there shrieking in the corner of the bar trying futilely
to block the carefully timed punches that were cutting his head to
tatters... right down to the skull in places. But he refused to say that he
gave up... or that he was wrong.
Even in the delirium of his beating he believed in his heart that someone
would stop the fight before he had to admit defeat. I'm sure this strategy
had served him well in the past and had allowed him to continue on his
career as a barroom bully.
Finally, in a wail of agony the Marine shrieked "I give up", and we gently
backed the sailor away from him.
I'm sure you can guess why I have shared this story today.
I'm not particularly proud to have been witness to such a bloody spectacle,
and the sound of that Marine's woman-like shrieks will haunt me to my grave.
But I learned something that evening that Israel had better learn for itself
if it is to finally be rid of at least one of its tormentors:
This is one time an Arab aggressor must be allowed to be beaten so badly
that every civilized nation will stand in horror, wanting desperately to
step in and stop the carnage... but knowing that the fight will only truly
be over when one side gives up and finally admits defeat.
Just as every person who had ever rescued that bully from admitting defeat
helped create the cowardly brute I saw that evening in the bar, every
well-intentioned power that has ever stepped in and negotiated a ceasefire
for an Arab aggressor has helped create the monsters we see around us today.
President Lahoud of Lebanon, a big Hezbollah supporter and a close ally of
Syria, has been shrieking non-stop to the UN Security Council for the past
few days to get them to force Israel into a cease fire.
Clearly he has been reading his autographed copy of 'Military Success for
Arab Despots' by the late Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt. Ever since Nasser
accidentally discovered the trick in '56, every subsequent Arab leader has
stuck to his tried and true formula for military success:
1.. Instigate a war.
2.. Once the war is well underway and you are in the process of having your
ass handed to you... get a few world powers to force your western opponent
into a cease fire.
3.. Whatever you do, don't surrender or submit to any terms dictated by your
enemy. That would ruin everything! All you have to do is wait it out and
eventually the world will become sickened at what is being done to your
soldiers and civilian population... and will force a truce.
4.. Once a truce has been called you can resume your intransigence (which
probably caused the conflict in the first place),
and even declare victory as your opponent leaves the field of battle.
This tactic has never failed. Not once.
In fact it worked so will for the Egyptians in 1973, that to this day they
celebrate the Yom Kippur War - a crushing defeat at the hands of Israel - as
a military victory! No kidding... it's a national holiday over there!
President Lahoud has already begun to shriek like a school girl to the UN
Security Council to "Stop the violence and arrange a cease-fire, and then
after that we'll be ready to discuss all matters."
Uh huh. Forgive me if I find that a tad hard to swallow. He allowed
Hezbollah to take over his country. He allowed the regular Lebanese army to
provide radar targeting data for the Hezbollah missile that struck the
Israeli destroyer. He has turned a blind eye while Iranian and Syrian
weapons, advisers and money have poured into his country.
And now that his country is in ruins he wants to call it a draw.
As much as it may sicken the world to stand by and watch it happen, strong
hands need to hold back the weak-hearted and let the fight continue until
one side finally admits unambiguous defeat.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 01:20 am (UTC)I'm not picking sides, I'm just saying these transparent tactic has been used in everything from the first Gulf War to Hurricane Katrina.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 02:36 am (UTC)The logic, turned on ourselves, has the USA deserving a beat down because our president is insane.
That said, there is no idea represented in this letter than remotely translates to war, politics, etc., the world as a whole. If you make a leader bend and admit defeat that does nothing to change the hearts and minds of the people in the same direction. If anything, it furthers their hatred.
I can't help but read and read about the history of the middle east lately. Couple of things I have noticed:
Violence/War has never worked yet has been almost exclusively used as a tool to settle conflicts.
There is a severe lack of compromise on all fronts, all believing they are righteous yet none are.
The only justice that will be accepted is bloody revenge.
One other note... Maybe you can answer this for me: Why do most of the time lines I see around start with the kidnapping? That's blatantly wrong and I am not sure why this is so common. Makes no sense. Obviously you can take it back to the Gaza bombing two days before, at the very least, so why is it always excluded? Wouldn't that help people understand if the whole story was put out there?
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 02:47 am (UTC)It's not about "deserve", it's about settling an issue. If the U.S. got enough of a beatdown, it would certainly settle a few things. It may yet happen.
Which is why the Japanese are still our sworn enemies, now more than ever. It's why the Mexicans are still trying to take back Texas. It's why people from Southern states still shoot at Yankees. People are capable of moving on. But you have to beat them until they're sick of getting beaten, until they understand that giving up is their only option.
The mideast hasn't had a real war—the kind of war where both sides fight until one side gets sick of fighting and gives up—since WWII. As the article pointed out, someone always steps in to stop it before it can become decisive. And yet this continued aggression is somehow a failure of violence rather than a failure of negotiation.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 03:52 am (UTC)Settle what? The majority of the USA does not approve of what the Whitehouse is doing. What would be gained from beating up the entire country except pissing off the majority and a rallying of the twisted neocon minority? Do we not prove our distaste for their actions until we use violence against our own government?
>>"Which is why the Japanese are still our sworn enemies, now more than ever. It's why the Mexicans are still trying to take back Texas. It's why people from Southern states still shoot at Yankees. People are capable of moving on. But you have to beat them until they're sick of getting beaten, until they understand that giving up is their only option."
The Japanese gave in because they feared us, now they quietly hate us but are willing to help buying up as much of the USA as they can. I think I dislike this reasoning for dropping nukes the most.
I fail to see how Mexico is better off or we in relation to them. If you recall, the Mexicans put the beat down on us and we turned it in to a Tourist spot. They didn't gain shit from it and eventually we kicked them back.
The Southern states were hardly "beat down" in to submission and yes, they were shooting at Yankees well until... Shit, maybe they still do once in a while? The North and the South beat each other down. I'm not sure the last time you were in the South, but the rebel flag is still flying. Ever heard of Robert Harrison? http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b68623c21ba.htm
How about a real example of a beat down and the results? WWI. Germany.
Oh yeah, that really kept them quiet.
Got any other examples?
>>"The mideast hasn't had a real war—the kind of war where both sides fight until one side gets sick of fighting and gives up—since WWII. As the article pointed out, someone always steps in to stop it before it can become decisive. And yet this continued aggression is somehow a failure of violence rather than a failure of negotiation."
I am not sure how you define war, but as far as I can tell (going by the basic definition), war has been present in the middle east since history began and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. Either way, I attempted to satisfy the word by using "Violence/War", depending on which you prefer.
The majority of what I've seen today calls the current crisis/fighting a "War". (Yes, there is debate over using the word, but it's so fucking arbitrary at this point.)
So, when exactly has someone stepped in to stop shit, ever? I have yet to see that in my research. I've seen a lot of two faced BS where someone puts on the peace song and dance while arming one side (or worse, arming both sides). I've not seen any real attempts at stopping the fight. I would be interested in seeing an example of this.
If you want to cling to Japan as an example of a beat down working, so be it. I still wonder who they will be siding with in the coming months and years (if it comes to that). So far they have been very quiet, no?
Frankly, I think the over all sense of honor still prevalent with the Japanese still has them burning for revenge. If it's on a financial level, so be it (China seems to be satisfied with this option for now), but I think it would be unwise to assume they forgave and forgot a damn thing.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:23 am (UTC)Frankly, you're delusional. Your belief that violence can't and won't solve anything is so strong that faced with examples to the contrary, you simply create a fantasy world.
Oh well.
I live in a world where slavery is ended, a Jew can go to Germany, and Japan is our greatest trade partner. It's a good world to live in.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:24 am (UTC)Frankly, I think the over all sense of honor still prevalent with the Japanese still has them burning for revenge
1980s UAW spokesman logic.. pathetic.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:46 am (UTC)Are you insane? I never said I was against the use of violence for anything and everything. Why would you even assume as much? Violence is an option and has it's uses.
Violence is our basic nature and still a viable option. My argument is that the unilateral "beat down" of an entire people based on what a minority or what a psycho leader does is stupid. It doesn't work. It's cruel and only angers the survivors to act even more violent in return.
I find it totally amazing that you jumped to such an asinine assumption based on my comments above.
I already made this point in Mike's (ikill007) journal ages ago of which I am sure you participated in, even within the same thread as me, but since I changed my username you may be confused. I used to be "pinkish".
In case you forgot or didn't care to pay attention then, I'll be clear now: I am a gut toting hardcore (small L) libertarian. Just because I think carpet bombing an entire culture/country/etc is stupid, doesn't make me some anti-everything jackass.
How rude for you to assume as much to avoid answer a single fucking question in my comment. I can't think of a better way to ruin any argument you could possibly have from this point on after doing something so trite.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:57 am (UTC)Except when it does. See Hiroshima. See Dresden.
I don't have to jump to any conclusions. You are making statements that are flat-out wrong, even in your clarification.
No, just wrong.
You are under the mistaken impression that I have any desire to convince you. I've long ago given up the idea that logic and evidence can penetrate the delusions of the mentally ill. That requires strong medication.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:23 am (UTC)You are babbling on with no real reason & you attempt to attack me personally on the internets rather than attempt a real conversation.
And I am mentally ill? Ohhhkay.
I only bother with this shit to converse and learn. Shocking! I actually give a shit. Feel free to wipe your ass with that one, too.
You only bother with this shit for what? To be a dick whenever possible? Textual masturbation? You like to fight and there is no one around willing to listen to your shit? What? I'm dying to know. Really.
I didn't expect much more out of you. I've seen you your cutsie arrogant diatribe around here enough to know that you just like to see your words up somewhere and have nothing really remarkable to share.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:32 am (UTC)i could also compare you to those who ascribe to the protocols of the elders of zion (esp. 2, 4, & 20)
for it is also of the same logic
then again, you're probably too thick to understand why
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:51 am (UTC)You contribute nothing, you improve nothing, you do nothing productive. You fail. I am not impressed by it. It's pitiful.
By the way, I do not hold your 'wit' to any high regard nor am I hurt by being called an imbecile by the likes of you. I've seen better. Much better.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 06:22 am (UTC)I'm enjoying the fireworks
*grin*
sorry for the rant, dude. it's not really aimed at you.
Date: 2006-08-01 07:58 am (UTC)while yes, we do have those people, everyone has those people. not every Marine is big, strong and ignorant; it's just that the Marines' reuptation has earned them so much animosity that everyone likes to hear the story of the "big bad marine who got his ass whooped". I've now heard variations on japan, okinawa, thailand, the phillipines, various locations around the US, shipboard, and korea... and it's always the same thing with little differences: big bad Marine picks on tiny, inoffensive-looking local and procedes to get his ass kicked.
get over the Marines. We've got the reputation for being badass because undisciplined people don't understand discipline. that's what makes our reputation precede us. not that all of us are 6'3, 250 pound brick shithouses looking to start drunken brawls. Hell, while I was active duty I never broke 150 pounds, soaking wet. I'm better at Aikido than I ever was at MCMAP, and "gee, i guess i was wrong" is just a synonym for "damn, i just got a bit smarter" in my book. I'm a living counterexample.
get over the Marines.
and the second thing I'm forced to do
Date: 2006-08-01 08:01 am (UTC)CRUSH YOUR ENEMY TOTALLY
All great leaders since Moses have known that a feared enemy must be crushed completely. (Sometimes they have learned this the hard way.) If one ember is left alight, no matter how dimly it smolders, a fire will eventually break out. More is lost through stopping halfway than through total annihilation: The enemy will recover, and will seek revenge. Crush him, not only in bod but in spirit.
umm...
Date: 2006-08-01 12:07 pm (UTC)How about:
Nah. I can't even get started. I will say I wouldn't at all be surprised if this sort of thing that Olmert used to bring Dubya on board though...
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 01:10 pm (UTC)One of the best, most intelligent rants I've ever seen.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 01:13 pm (UTC)That isn't necessarily true of everyone else who might be reading this.
Re: and the second thing I'm forced to do
Date: 2006-08-01 02:14 pm (UTC)It may be that the lessoned learned is, "Why should I give these goombahs the chance that all of history has failed to learn in exterminating me..."
Life, she is complex and contrary to our great and powerful leader/cowboy it is rarely black and white.
Re: and the second thing I'm forced to do
Date: 2006-08-01 02:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:01 pm (UTC)i have provided two distinct corollaries to your asinine logic concerning japan. you have ignored both completely.
whether this is out of embarrassment or sheer stupidity, i am not sure, nor do i much care.
but it is amusing to watch you dig.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:06 pm (UTC)Yes, because I ever said that.
Dickbag, get a new gag. Being mean for the sake of being a dick is so AOL 98.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:11 pm (UTC)Get a productive hobby. And next time you should maybe not use the $2 words if you cannot spell them correctly.
:)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-01 05:18 pm (UTC)Re: and the second thing I'm forced to do
Date: 2006-08-02 09:08 pm (UTC)I think that this is the point of differing cultures... ANY group of people can think they understand justice better than others. ANY group can believe that they have the power to be fair. Tragically, they are human, and flawed and... well... can't. I also don't think it's possible to have a sliding scale of justice, where some people are 'more equal' than others.